Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Kenny Thunder: Sam, It's time. Time for another very special live edition of the burning river sportscast. Jets 17, Browns 12.
We are who we thought we were.
[00:01:03] Ronnie Jams: You know, when you put it that way with the jets having more points than the Browns, it feels bad.
[00:01:10] Kenny Thunder: You know, we just seem to struggle with this game. We better hope if this team ever does get good, that the jets don't simultaneously get good. Because we'll never beat them in the playoffs.
[00:01:19] Ronnie Jams: Never.
Never.
No chance in hell.
Yeah, I mean, we'll get into the game, but before we get there, you can find a podcast wherever you get your podcast. Talking to Apple Podcast, Spotify, stitcher, Amazon Music's YouTube Music Pandora, iHeartRadio podcast, Castro Good Pods, we're wondering. Football podcast and so many more.
While you're at it, please leave us a review on your preferred podcast app. Really helps us grow and get seen. And don't forget to subscribe on YouTube and check us out on Facebook, Instagram and Tick Tock our handle for all those socials at Burning or Sportscast. And we are on X as well with the handle at Bernie Pod Pod. While you're at it, check out our merch www.thetapmedia.com backslash shop all kinds of stuff in there before we get started.
Quick shout out to our sponsor, our main sponsor, Topaz Distillery.
Topaz Distillery and award winning craft distillery located in Akron, Ohio. Topaz Story focuses on high quality spirits carefully made in small batches. Topaz Distillery, handcrafted, award winning small batch, local and family owned.
And on today's show, this is what you can look forward to. We got a recap of today's Week 5 loss against the goddamn Jets.
A closer look at the offense, defense, special teams, coaching, pretty much everything. Our nominees for dog of the week, our final thoughts of the week and I'm sure, I'm sure there's gonna be more. So let's get things started by reminding everyone to call the Burninger Sportscast. I take hotline Hot take hotline.
[00:02:42] Kenny Thunder: Call us on the hot take hotline
[00:02:44] Ronnie Jams: because we takes on the hot take outlines. Are we getting hot takes yet?
[00:02:48] Kenny Thunder: No, I think our boys from the North Jersey Brownsbackers are still driving. Driving home from the game.
[00:02:55] Ronnie Jams: That and everybody drank themselves into oblivion. They're just like, ah, that's true.
[00:03:00] Kenny Thunder: Yeah, we're back guys. Everybody feels bad. So yeah, we need those hot takes. Give us those hot takes. Call it. Call that number.
[00:03:08] Ronnie Jams: Yeah.
Hot takes. 3302-2780-8133-0227-8081, 330-22-7881.
Call now and then real quick, Bernie Kar autograph jersey giveaway. Yes. For the fourth year in a row, we're giving away some autograph Browns memorabilia. And this one is a Bernie Kar autograph jersey.
[00:03:29] Kenny Thunder: I would usually hold it up right now, but it's not within arm's reach, so I can't. So sorry.
[00:03:34] Ronnie Jams: So you came prepared is what you're telling me.
[00:03:36] Kenny Thunder: That's right.
[00:03:37] Ronnie Jams: Plenty of ways to enter. Head to our socials. Those posts are pinned on all of our social pages.
So get signed up and earn some bonus entries.
Now, the week five recap, I mean, it's not official yet, but basically from first to worst, just like that. I mean, that's, that's where we're at.
[00:03:55] Kenny Thunder: Right.
[00:03:55] Ronnie Jams: I mean, I think we're going to end up being a last place. Pittsburgh one, Cincinnati Wonka is going to
[00:04:02] Kenny Thunder: be three and two.
[00:04:03] Ronnie Jams: Yeah.
[00:04:04] Kenny Thunder: So.
[00:04:05] Ronnie Jams: Yeah. So it's like you said, we are who we thought we were. I guess. I don't know.
[00:04:11] Kenny Thunder: Life comes at you fast.
[00:04:13] Ronnie Jams: Luck be a lady tonight. That's what they always say, you know?
[00:04:16] Kenny Thunder: Is that what they say?
[00:04:17] Ronnie Jams: Yeah.
[00:04:18] Kenny Thunder: Is that the truth? I mean, look at the end.
[00:04:20] Ronnie Jams: That lady's a fickle. Because we are, we are in last place.
[00:04:25] Kenny Thunder: Wow. I mean, we were riding high for a while. We were throwing around. People were throwing around the P word.
[00:04:32] Ronnie Jams: That's a bad job back.
[00:04:35] Kenny Thunder: Always forgiven.
[00:04:36] Ronnie Jams: Everybody was ready to sign him to
[00:04:38] Kenny Thunder: an extension and now we're in last place.
[00:04:41] Ronnie Jams: I like how during this stretch too, like, and we'll, we'll get to all this, I'm sure. But I like how during this stretch, it wasn't like people were suggesting that maybe like you started this. As soon as he had an okay game, you were like, yeah, I don't know. If we win some games, they're going to be talking extension. We went from that to, yeah, he's definitely getting an extension if we win 10 games.
So.
[00:05:03] Kenny Thunder: Well, I mean, look, there's two teams I think right now in the NFL that are 0 and 5. Right. And you've already won three games. So I just, my whole point is that it's going to take you out of the quarterback derby for whoever number one is and whoever probably number two and three is as far as quarterbacks in the draft. So that's going to leave you with no quarterbacks. And clearly they don't have confidence in Shador. So the one you're going to go with is the one that won you games this year, which is going to be desean and they're going to have to do something to bring him back next year.
[00:05:28] Ronnie Jams: So with how Arch Manning is looking right now, I don't, I don't even want to be up in that and.
But I guess he's also, he's also what, 22 years old when he comes when he's starting in the NFL.
[00:05:40] Kenny Thunder: And it seems like we do this every couple of years where it's like we have this great quarterback class and everybody's anticipating all these high end quarterbacks and then they go out and they don't perform during their college season. But that's neither here nor there. Let's talk about this week's game because we have a ways off before we really get into the draft talk and even next year. I mean, I think we just want to focus right now on the shit show that was today. I think, look, there's scrolling through social media is a minefield right now because everybody wants to blame somebody. I think the reality is that everything that could possibly go wrong, including the weather, went wrong today. Right. Like this was a team loss. The, the defense like held their, up their end of the bargain for the most part.
I didn't have a whole lot of problems with the way they played and there were some really good standout performances there as well. But just in general, I mean, special teams, you got missed extra points, you get the muffs.
[00:06:37] Ronnie Jams: We've been saying for weeks it's coming, saying it's coming.
[00:06:40] Kenny Thunder: Desean didn't play particularly well, but he didn't get a lot of help from his receivers. Quin, Sean, you know, couldn't run the ball again today, so the offense was putrid for most of that game. It was borderline unwatchable for, for most of it.
And then also you had the weather that was a factor, which, look, these are big boys, it's the NFL. Like that shouldn't be a problem, but, but it was today, right. And, and the weather impacts both teams the same. So one team, one team thrived in it and one team couldn't.
And then you have obviously the loss of KC and, and the hit on Minka, which will hit from Minka, which we'll get into here, I'm sure. But yeah, it was just a, a culmination of like everything possibly bad that could happen to this team.
[00:07:22] Ronnie Jams: You know, I blame us.
[00:07:23] Kenny Thunder: Went wrong all at once.
[00:07:24] Ronnie Jams: I blame us because our live episode last or not our live episode, but in our preview episode this week, we kept talking about the shit Store the. The Schmidt storm and now the Browns that came out with a complete shitstorm. It was just terrible. It was.
Every facet of the game was absolutely awful.
This looked like the Browns team that we saw week one, to be honest
[00:07:45] Kenny Thunder: with you, and that's where I was going to go with it, was this team resembled the week one team more than it resembled the team from that we watched for the last couple of weeks.
And, and look, I. I'm trying to kind of keep arms length here, away just from my emotion on this, because there's a lot of possible explanations here. Again, right. There's a lot of people that you could blame for today's loss. I'd like to think over the course of the season that this is a weird blip on the radar in terms of. Look, the weather was just kind of really shitty, and they're going to have their fair share of weather games we play in Cleveland. But. But it was exceptionally wet today, and that messed up a lot of what they had been able to execute for the last three weeks. So I don't want to get overly down on this team and think like, okay, like, this is the shoe that we were waiting to drop and this is probably what we should expect for the rest of the year because we've seen them play pretty well for the last three weeks. So time will tell which team is the real Browns.
[00:08:50] Ronnie Jams: But I'll say this.
[00:08:51] Kenny Thunder: I don't want to overreact to one game.
[00:08:54] Ronnie Jams: I, I agree with that. Mostly, I'll say this. I also don't want to say that this isn't the team you'll see the rest of the year.
[00:09:00] Kenny Thunder: I. I agree. Right. I mean, I think there's. There's a lot of. There's a lot of explanations for why this team looked for this team that makes sense that this could be really the version of the Browns like, that we're going to see most of this year.
I just. I just think it's too early to. To tell that. I mean, as much as I would love to sit here and pontificate like the NFL has a funny way of making you look really stupid week to week because not everything is always as it seems. Right now Atlanta is beating Baltimore, so, you know, weirder things have happened.
I do think it's. It's probably good for everyone to kind of rein ourselves in a little bit because we were, I think, a little, you know, smelling ourselves a little bit, you know, feeling pretty good about winning three games in a row.
[00:09:43] Ronnie Jams: Well, I think Grant Delpitz Summed it up this week. The best. When they asked him if this was possibly a trap game, he's like, there's no such thing as a trap game for the Cleveland Browns. Like, we. We're not that good yet. So.
[00:09:55] Kenny Thunder: Yeah. Yeah, there's. I mean, they weren't even a favorite. A favorite in this game.
[00:09:58] Ronnie Jams: So you know what locked it in, seriously, was this week, somebody. I forget who wrote the piece if. And I apologize for not citing, but somebody wrote a story on the Browns transformation may already be complete. And it's like,
[00:10:14] Kenny Thunder: right. So. And that's why I don't want to, like, get over my skis either way on this because the season is long. There's still a lot of football left to be played.
This was just a.
An exceptionally bad performance most of the way around. Again, the defense was. Was mostly fine for. For today, but.
But the offense was especially bad. Special teams blunders killed us.
And.
[00:10:37] Ronnie Jams: Yeah.
[00:10:38] Kenny Thunder: And even if you were the better team on the field today, from a personnel standpoint, you certainly didn't show it. So it was just an ugly, you know, very boring game, honestly, until the last few minutes before anything happened.
[00:10:52] Ronnie Jams: Yeah.
[00:10:53] Kenny Thunder: You know, if you stayed awake during this whole thing, congratulations. Because it was tough. It was tough to watch at times.
I don't know what that means, but.
But he was.
[00:11:09] Ronnie Jams: He said Shadora was warming up today and a trash can swatted his pass away.
[00:11:15] Kenny Thunder: I.
I mean, look, I. You should order and even play. Like, you know, right now, desean's quarterback. We're going to talk about desean, and it is what it is.
It's going to be a few weeks, I think, before Shador is even a part of this conversation again. It's going to take a few more games like this before we even are entertaining that discussion at this point.
[00:11:34] Ronnie Jams: Yeah.
Coming in hot. Yeah.
[00:11:40] Kenny Thunder: Yeah. I mean, look, it was just missed opportunity after missed opportunity and blunder after blunder.
So, I mean, where do you want. Where do you want to start here? You want to talk desean first? Where do you. Where do you want to go here?
[00:11:50] Ronnie Jams: We're going to do what we always do. We're going to start the offense. I was just letting you. You went off on a tangent and I was letting you do it. So, yeah, we'll start with the offense.
You know, overall, obviously, we talked at length about the weather, but Deshaun Watson did not look good. I mean, if anybody can sit here and tell me legitimately, and I know we got a couple. We got that comment at the beginning saying it Sounds like tongue in cheek. Like, oh, if, if desean Watson wouldn't have missed the extra point and muff the, you know, messed up, botch the punt, then we would have won. Look, I'm not saying it was all his fault. I'm just saying he also didn't play well. He was 15 of 33. I understand there were drops, but he also took eight sacks for 53 yards. And I guarantee you that if we looked at who is credited with the sack from like, pff. How they show you if it's. It's the lineman or the guarantee or the quarterback, probably about half of those are desean's fault.
Yeah, he just he this to your point, a few minutes ago, he did not look like the quarterback we've seen the last three games because even when he wasn't putting up, you know, most of those, those numbers through that stretch were fairly average. But the difference with desean in those games versus any other games I've seen him with the Cleveland Browns is he looked confident, he made decisions and stuck with them. And just, you know, he, he, he was decisive. He wasn't like that today. He wasn't like that in game one.
And yeah, I just, I think it was a big step back from what we've had the last few weeks.
[00:13:25] Kenny Thunder: The one positive that I'll get give him today was that his feet still looked good.
He was able to get away on a couple of those where protection did break down and extend the play a little bit and made a couple of decent throws there, all things considered. But, but by and large, it just. He didn't play well today. Right. And I think that's going to be the story with desean Watson all year long. Right. Like we've watched this guy be absolutely awful for years.
The, the three games now that he's played mildly competent that led to wins. Like, that's the aberration, that's the anomaly. That's, that's what's different. So, you know, I think we're going to see weeks like we did the last couple where if desean plays as well as desean is capable of playing, which isn't like the super highest ceiling right now for a quarterback in the NFL, but it's good enough to win games, then the, the games will be watchable and they're going to win a few. Yeah, when he plays like he did today, they're, they're not going to win a lot of football games because, because he can't be the difference maker. He's not going to he's not going to, to be able to make that difference.
But again, credit where credit's due. Like, his feet looked pretty good today. I think he had six carries for 40 yards or so again today. So, you know, all these considered, like, this is the desean Watson experience. Like, it's just he's never going to be the old desean ever again.
[00:14:48] Ronnie Jams: Now highlight the last one from Kid Wilson there.
[00:14:51] Kenny Thunder: I'm not even blaming Watson for that.
[00:14:53] Ronnie Jams: No, and that's, and that's what I was trying to say. I, My point was he didn't play well, but neither did the entire team. I, I think the whole. This was a team loss. I don't think this was on any one player, any one coach, any one. Any. It was just bad all the way around.
[00:15:09] Kenny Thunder: We just, we just started Sean, because we start with the quarterbacks.
[00:15:13] Ronnie Jams: We always start with the Sean. So we'll get into this. Quinton Judkins is next. I mean, we need to keep asking the question, right?
Quint? We've asked the question since midway through last year before he got hurt.
Is, is Quin Sean Judkins actually that good? I mean, he basically averages like 2.8 yards of carry on his career.
[00:15:35] Kenny Thunder: Yeah, it's, it's getting tougher out there.
Look, I don't know if a lot of it is scheme right now too, I think, because if you look at, I was looking through some numbers today and they are under center, they are last in the NFL. They're 32 out of 32 in terms of snaps they've taken under center this year. And it's, it's not even close.
The amount of times they're running the ball on first down, they are 32 out of 32, and it's not even close.
So to me, when you're doing things that are that much different than the rest of the NFL is doing, there's something off there schematically right? Like they're, they're, they're in shotgun all the time, which I think part of that has been. Desean is limited and they're trying to put desean in situations where he can be successful. So they're trying to run this offense that is most, just, just easiest on desean.
And to their credit, like, they've, they've had success with that. Right. So. But I think it's a huge problem when it comes to the running game because you're not putting Quintean in the position to be most successful. You're not really putting any running back in the position to Be most successful when you're in shotgun 95% of the time. So. Yeah, and, and this team has, has, you know, struggled incredibly when it comes to inside run blocking and just inside running game in general.
The, the little bits of success that we've seen have been off tackle, like outside zone type stuff. I'd like to see them do more of that.
But you know, already today you're starting with attrition on the offensive line with, you know, dejuan had to come in tackle. So, you know, we'll see how this offensive line stays together the rest of the way. But they just, it's, it's consistently been a problem all year long. Quin Sean has been, you know, less than stellar since most of last year and into this year and it's starting to become a conversation. Right. I think we all want to take that, you know, quarterback one early in the draft. Next year you may end up having to draft a running back. Like all these things are on the table now.
[00:17:42] Ronnie Jams: Now. Yeah, yeah. And, and I, I, I just think it's something that we need to continue to monitor.
The offensive line was not good today, but it's just another game. He's his for his career. He's average. I looked it up while you were talking. He's 3.5 yards per game or yards per game, yards per carry for his career and this season he's at 3 yards per carry.
[00:18:06] Kenny Thunder: So I didn't think we'd get an Owen Marisic reference on the show tonight, but.
[00:18:09] Ronnie Jams: Well, we, I think we got our, I think we've got a, a pretty good troll going here, but no, yeah, so, so the running game wasn't good. It was basically non existent. We were right about where I think our season average was, which is under 100 at like we, we finished this game at 96. I think our season average was 94. So the receiving core, Isaiah Bond actually was playing today. A lot of people will tell you, unfortunately, because he dropped I think two or three balls that were right in his hands, including a touchdown pass.
[00:18:43] Kenny Thunder: He was also the leading receiver. He was also the most productive receiver on the day. So it, it was wet. It was exceptionally wet. I think it was, I think people underestimate like how hard it is to, to have a passing offense in, in the NFL when it's, when it's that wet out.
It wasn't like jets played much better. I mean Gino did play better, but it wasn't a lot better. Right. I mean he was 17 to 30 for 182 in a touchdown.
[00:19:10] Ronnie Jams: Yeah. So outside of Garrett Wilson, nobody had, like, a legitimate receiving day today.
[00:19:16] Kenny Thunder: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:19:17] Ronnie Jams: I mean, Boston had a touchdown, which we'll get to in a minute, but,
[00:19:20] Kenny Thunder: I mean, and that was a good pass.
[00:19:23] Ronnie Jams: That was the only real stat line from a receiver, was 7 for 104 and a touchdown from Garrett Wilson. So that was one of my players, one of my matchups that mattered, and we lost that matchup.
[00:19:34] Kenny Thunder: So I agree with Kid Wilson. The people were hard on the Isaiah Bond on the end zone pass. That wasn't the best pass DeSean has thrown, but I think that's what you're going to get from desean Watson. Right. Like, he has been wildly inaccurate at times.
So the fact that it's even close, like, these receivers. These receivers have made him look pretty good to this point because they have gone up and kind of got everything it hurt to lose KC early on in this game.
[00:20:01] Ronnie Jams: Let's talk about that real quick. Let's just. Let's just change. Change gears here. And because I actually, all. All the rest of the game, all I heard was, Jesus.
All I heard the rest of the game was how dirty Minka Fitzpatrick is, how everybody hates him.
And look, I don't. I'm not a huge Minga Fitzpatrick fan, but I think the. The hate that he gets from Cleveland fans is so unwarranted, it's insane.
I know. He basically ended Nick Chubb's career.
I'm here to tell you that was a clean hit. He's a db. Nick Chubb is shook many tackles where he's wrapped up up top and then went on to score touchdowns. So Minka Fitzpatrick, at the time did the only thing he could do and go low.
Unfortunately, our player got hurt with it. So the Nick Chubb hit, even I thought that was clean. I thought the one today was super clean. I mean, he just came up and hit him. Like all he did was hit him.
I know it was helmet to helmet. I know he got a flag for it. And technically, it's against the rules, but, you know, I've. I've played defense in college. I know. I know what that means and how everybody likes to say you could. You can contort your body and you could protect players on offense when you're on. There's no way that stuff happens so fast that he's coming in, trying to make a play. And Casey Concepcion weighs all of £154. So he just got lit up.
[00:21:27] Kenny Thunder: Yeah, look, I mean, Casey's a smaller stature, man.
He was in the middle of making a play. So his body was already a smaller target than if he were just standing there.
And it was a bang bang play. I have a problem with this. Every time there's helmet to helmet or somebody gets knocked out that we automatically go, this was a dirty play. This is a dirty player.
[00:21:50] Ronnie Jams: Just hit him.
[00:21:52] Kenny Thunder: Anytime there's a bang bang play in this game, I have a hard time believing that it was intentional to any degree. It. Was it intentional that he was trying to separate the receiver from the ball? Yes. Was he trying to knock the guy out? No, he's trying to make a play. I think the, the dirty plays, the quote unquote, dirty players and dirty plays come usually after the fact, right? You're hitting a guy that's on the sideline already out of bounds. You're shoving a guy that's not looking after the whistle's been blown. You're jumping on a pile well after the punch play has been dead. Those are dirty, those are dirty plays when it's in the course of the, the game. And both of Minka's plays are perfect examples of this, right? Like the Nick Chub run was an inside run on the goal line. You have a DB that's coming up trying to make a tackle in traffic, like
[00:22:44] Ronnie Jams: he's coming straight downhill, like full speed. What do you get? Like, they just hit it.
[00:22:49] Kenny Thunder: How else do you tackle a running back like Nick Chubb?
And in the play today, like was it vicious and physical?
[00:22:57] Ronnie Jams: It.
[00:22:57] Kenny Thunder: Was it a combat play? Absolutely. But I wish that we had a guy like Minka Fitzpatrick on our defense to make those plays at times. Because to me, and look, we grew up in a little bit of a different era where that was still allowed. I mean, hell, when we played db, like that was, that was, that was what we were taught to do. We, we spent, we spent many at practice, you know, head hunting our players.
[00:23:20] Ronnie Jams: That was my favorite time when somebody wasn't looking at me.
[00:23:24] Kenny Thunder: And, and it's clearly been outlawed from the game now due to player safety. But I don't know that there's a better alternative. It's the same thing that, that we talk about every week when a defensive lineman lands on a quarterback after a sack. Like you have a 340 pound man trying, not full speed, running into someone change his. I don't know how you expect him to, to not put his land his body weight on the guy he's tackling.
[00:23:50] Ronnie Jams: So it's highlight that one. The Colt McCoy comment right there, that was a dirty hit. That was Colt McCoy let the ball go, took three steps and then just got railed by by James Harrison. Like, that is a dirty hit. Not what happened today.
Yeah, I'm glad it came up.
[00:24:09] Kenny Thunder: To me, it was very much a bang, bang play and, and it was a very physical play and. And it sucks that it happened to our guy. Look, I love, I love Casey. I love what he'.
[00:24:18] Ronnie Jams: Far.
[00:24:18] Kenny Thunder: I think he's got a bright future here in this organization and you don't want to see any of your guys go down.
But, but to, to. The calls for, like Minka to be thrown out of the league are, I think, ridiculous. And frankly, it makes our fan base look soft. Right? It makes us look like we don't have any physicality and we're. We can't compete with that and that we have some kind of expectation that someone's supposed to be nice to us. Like, that's not the game. And as much as they try and legislate the violence out of this game, that bloodthirst is the reason why most of us are here. Not to see people get hurt, but we love the combat action. We love the man on man physicality of football, and you can't take it out of the game entirely.
I go back to the Don Draper quote, right? Like, that's what the money is for.
This isn't, this isn't a game for weak men or weak minds. Like, this is a tough business and it's, it's an, it's an assumed risk. You know, we have people that, that put their lives in danger every day, whether they're police or fire or military that see way worse. These guys get paid a king's ransom to play a kids game, but it is physical and it is violent. And unfortunately, injuries do happen.
But to me, this was, at the end of the day, not a dirty hit. It was just a very physical one.
[00:25:39] Ronnie Jams: And I actually don't know how else
[00:25:40] Kenny Thunder: you're supposed to make that play. What's he supposed to do, Just let him.
[00:25:43] Ronnie Jams: His Internet went out.
See if we can get him back here real quick.
[00:25:49] Kenny Thunder: Oh,
[00:26:07] Ronnie Jams: Nope.
So I, I don't. I don't know how the Brown, how Browns fans are going to take this in general, but honestly, like, I don't even think the hit before that was. Was dirty. When he pulled the face mask off, I mean, they were falling to the ground. He was, he was falling with him. He was just trying to make sure he was getting the guy down. And yeah, I just, I don't even think that was intentional. I think that was More him grabbing the play. It's unfortunate that, you know, Minka Fitzpatrick and that it keeps happening with him and it seems like he's targeting our team for some reason, but I just really don't think that's the case.
So real quick, while Kenny's trying to get back on here, David Schoonover on Facebook asked if we think they should have won the game. Yes, I think they should have won the game.
Unfortunately, they did not.
Just the too many errors to it. You can't play that many. You can't have that many mistakes on the football field and win a game. It was a number of different things, but yeah, they should have won the game.
And then our boy Rod Thompson.
Rod Dog on Facebook is. Is saying that, you know, just our conversation that we just had just now. Cheap shot to the head from Minka Fitzpatrick. Again, don't think it was a cheap shot. I think that he did what he had to do, you know, and that's where we ended up. But I'm gonna move on here while Kenny's trying to get back on the feed.
Denzel Boston, another touchdown today. 46 yards, three receptions.
So he had a decent day. A little quieter than usual. Usually we're up in like 6, 7 catch range, but he had 3 catches for 46, so not terrible.
The touchdown's great. I think that's a touchdown in every game except for one this season. So that's. That's good.
Jerry Judy had a few more catches. We talked about Isaiah Bond and some of his drops, but yeah. Oh, you're back. Hey, you wanted to join us?
I wrapped up the Casey Conception talk and then moved on, so.
And I think we lost him again, so I'll just keep going here. I thought the defense was good in this one. The problem.
The problem was mostly offense. I mean, we held the jets to 17 points.
They had 260 yards total offense. I forget the exact number. 276 yards total offense.
It was a good effort by the defense. I mean, Carson Swezinger came up with the. The strip sack at the end that basically should have sworn the. Should have won us the game.
You have.
Who was it? Quincy Williams, playing out of his mind against his former team with 11 tackles today and three forced fumbles.
There's. There's absolutely no reason to blame the defense in this.
Even though there were a couple big plays given up, because I just.
Again, they put in a good effort. If you're. If you're giving up 17 points a week in the NFL, you should be winning most of your games. The fact that we don't is all on the offense.
So. Yeah. Quincy Williams, 11 tackles, three forced fumbles. Carson Schwinger, eight tackles, five solo, one sack. The strip sack that we talked about. You back for good this time?
[00:29:35] Kenny Thunder: I don't know, I'm having some kind of issue here.
[00:29:38] Ronnie Jams: Yeah, we really need to fix that.
But yeah, so I, I, I basically just ran through the entire show while you were gone.
[00:29:45] Kenny Thunder: That's good.
[00:29:46] Ronnie Jams: Yeah, no, I talked about the rest of the wide receivers.
We wrapped up the dirty hit talk with Minga Fitzpatrick. I basically told Rod Dogs, he said on Facebook that he thinks it was dirty. I said, nah, I don't think so.
And then we got into the defense and I said it's not the defense's fault. So yeah, I mean there were a
[00:30:05] Kenny Thunder: lot of guys that played well in the defense today.
You know, gritty, tough performances again, bad weather day. So it was one of those where you need the defense to step up in that way. But you know, truthfully, like they did enough today to win the game.
You know, 17 points given up. And frankly that last touchdown was because we gave up the ball after that muff snap on the punt like the 30 yard line. So yeah, I mean, yeah, I did
[00:30:33] Ronnie Jams: have one more comment actually on the dirty hit talk.
Be careful what you wish for there with punishments for, you know, dirty hits for Minka Fitzpatrick, because we've got a guy that's actually really physical that they just drafted this year and Emmanuel McNeil Warren, he's already flashed that a couple times this season.
If he, you know, really develops and starts playing as that hard hitting free safety, that cut just comes downhill and rocks people.
We, you know, when the, when the shoe is on the, you know, when it's, whenever the roles are reversed and everything's different. Do, are we dirt, is he a dirty player because he knocks someone out or is he just coming down and trying to make a play?
[00:31:12] Kenny Thunder: Well, I think we need to be really careful about calling for guys jobs or to be kicked out of the
[00:31:17] Ronnie Jams: league unless it's yours.
[00:31:20] Kenny Thunder: Well, I think we need to be really careful when we have a guy on our team that plays quarterback here that has some pretty serious allegations under his name. So maybe let's just cool it on, on all that talk.
But, but I don't know. Look, this was just, it was just a shitty day. It was a shitty game.
[00:31:39] Ronnie Jams: Special teams feels bad. Yeah, we'll get into special teams real quick. You already talked about the, I wanted
[00:31:44] Kenny Thunder: to go Back to Kid Wilson's comment about Kevin Stefanski. So just real quick.
No, Kevin can't coach.
[00:31:50] Ronnie Jams: You got to watch our preview show from last week. Kenny had a pretty epic rant about this this past week, so I'm sure he's about to get into it again.
[00:31:57] Kenny Thunder: Just real quick. I'll take 10 seconds here. Look, Kevin Stefanski is in week five with the Atlanta Falcons and he has a cheat code in Bichon Robinson, who's been stellar this year. Give Kevin a year, two, three years to permeate that culture. Start drafting guys like Dylan Gabriel, I promise you, you'll see how well Kevin Stefanski can coach.
[00:32:18] Ronnie Jams: Yeah, plus, I just like you said, it's. We're only a few weeks in. The Browns look really good right now, too. We'll see how that ends up at the end of the year.
And the whole Bajan Robinson thing, that
[00:32:29] Kenny Thunder: means
[00:32:33] Ronnie Jams: the whole Bajan Robinson thing. You remember when he had Nick Chubb too, and he looked really good?
[00:32:38] Kenny Thunder: Yeah, we. Look, we. Kevin won games here too. Coach of the year twice, so.
[00:32:42] Ronnie Jams: But as soon as he didn't have Nick, Chubby was pretty God awful.
[00:32:46] Kenny Thunder: Yeah.
[00:32:47] Ronnie Jams: So anyways, special teams here, we talked about the botched punt that basically lost the game.
A lot of people were talking about the missed extra point, too.
We've been talking about this for a couple weeks now about how the miss is going to come.
It was an unfortunate spot, but we didn't end up losing by one point because we missed the extra point. So, you know, it is what it is.
[00:33:12] Kenny Thunder: And frankly, New York gave you that one back by not going for two when they scored late. So like a touchdown still would have won the game. Game like, Right.
[00:33:20] Ronnie Jams: So I don't, you know that it was unfortunate and Andre was definitely bummed when he saw his face. He was like, seriously, an extra point.
[00:33:27] Kenny Thunder: But yeah, but look, I think this is good, right? Because all things considered, this was a bad game and a bad time and everything sucks right now. But he needed to miss. He needed to get that out of his system. Because the longer you carry a streak of 20, 25, 30 field goals and you start. The pressure starts mounting on an unprecedented streak, maybe the longest consecutive field goal streak in the NFL's history. Like, it's. It's just not good. It's not healthy. Like, because. Because you're just never going to be a hundred percent for this season. It's just not going to happen. So, yeah, you know, hopefully this one is out of his system and then we see another four or five Weeks before he misses again. Yeah.
[00:34:04] Ronnie Jams: And then I'll say this. I know everybody's mad at Corey Bajoraquez for dropping the punt but it was weird.
Yeah, it was, it was a bad snap. It's real wet today.
He had eight punts for 421 yards today. He basically punted at a mile today and he had two and or he had one inside the 20 and he had a long of 67. Like he is still punted pretty good today.
Wasn't really on him.
[00:34:33] Kenny Thunder: I Corey Bajoraque was.
I mean is a good punter. Like I don't. This was this and I don't even necessarily blame Rex Soon a Hara for this on the long snap like it was really wet.
It was just one of those bad things that happens sometimes. I mean how many times did desean put the ball on the ground today just trying to feel the snap. Like they had a really hard time all day long with that because of the conditions.
[00:35:01] Ronnie Jams: Yeah.
So yeah, I mean I guess that was the long winded way going through and reviewing everything of saying everything that you said at the very beginning of the show which was team effort. Everybody gave us this loss today.
Besides the only ones that I would probably give a pass is the defense. Like defense still played pretty well. A couple big plays here and there, but they played pretty well when you were gone. I said if, if you give up 17 points a game in the NFL you should win a lot of games.
[00:35:28] Kenny Thunder: Yeah. And the defense truthfully, like they put this team in position to win the game at the end of the game.
[00:35:32] Ronnie Jams: Right.
[00:35:33] Kenny Thunder: Like they give them the ball back under five minutes to play.
[00:35:37] Ronnie Jams: They did their jobs. I said Schwezinger, the offense in their territory to win the game.
[00:35:43] Kenny Thunder: The offense could have ended the game right there if the offense had done their job. So the, the defense, you know we said everybody did bad. Like the defense held up their end of the bargain today.
Could they have done something differently or better? Could they have picked off Gino or a pick six like I guess but like, but but the defense all things considered played pretty well.
[00:36:02] Ronnie Jams: That's the bar. Did you score a touchdown though? No. All right, well, you're part of the problem.
Well so in injuries wise obviously Mason Jar Graham as Kenny likes to call him, did not play today, working his way back from that injury and Carson Swezinger and Quinn Shawn Judkins left the stadium and walking boots. So that's something to monitor going forward.
[00:36:27] Kenny Thunder: One thing I will say about this game, we've been Talking a lot this year about see seeing this team improve week over week.
We've seen, you know, again, everything was bad. Week one. Then we start to see the passing game start to improve. Last week we saw the running game for the first time do something.
The defense obviously has picked up things as well.
The, the one thing that has been bad really all year long, up until today and including today a little was the discipline around operations and penalties.
Six penalties for 30 yards today, still not great. But it wasn't the like 9 and 10 for 100 yards that we've seen all year long. So it's something that is clearly they're addressing and working on.
And so I think it's. It just speaks to like the continued improvement. This team is young, right? Like, I don't know when everybody's bummed right now. I don't know when the expectations changed. Here in Cleveland. We win three games and all of a sudden we think we're world beaters. Like, that's not the case. This team is young. You have a head coach in his first year, his first year as a head coach, and this team has a lot of growing up to do. You have a, you have a quarterback that hasn't played football and hasn't played good football in several years. So everything about this team is developmental right now. The fact that they've already put three wins on the board is, is pretty impressive when you consider the entire scope of everything that's going on right now.
So I just, I don't know, you know, where. Where we. We had this expectation that like, we were going to be good. All of a sudden, like, that's totally unfounded.
[00:38:00] Ronnie Jams: So again, looking for the little row,
[00:38:02] Kenny Thunder: looking for the little silver linings, the improvement week over week, the things that they're working on that, you know, they're making changes on. To me, that was one small positive that came out of today's game. Even though the, the penalties we did have came at really inopportune times and really bad moments.
[00:38:17] Ronnie Jams: Yeah, yeah, fair.
But with that, let's go ahead. I'm gonna move us along here. Let's do our nominees for Dog of the Week. Kenny, we can start with you. Who's your nominee for Dog of the Week?
[00:38:29] Kenny Thunder: Oh, you're going to let me go first?
[00:38:31] Ronnie Jams: Yeah, I'll let you cherry pick here.
[00:38:33] Kenny Thunder: I appreciate that because I think there was, there was really only one, and it was the main reason we were in this game, and that was Quincy Williams, you know, had something to prove today. Huge day. I think 11 tackles, three, three forced fumbles. Like just a ridiculous monster performance.
Yeah, I've grown to really like this guy over the last couple of weeks. He's, he's, I think, going to be a good player here.
[00:38:57] Ronnie Jams: Is that what happens? Highlight that comment real quick before finish your. But is that what happens? They just, they turn into like octopus and just curl little suckers on their fingers?
[00:39:10] Kenny Thunder: I, I, I guess so.
[00:39:12] Ronnie Jams: Apparently they need to do that Dipping
[00:39:15] Kenny Thunder: the ball in the water drill.
[00:39:17] Ronnie Jams: Yeah, you, so you got Quincy. That's why I let you go first. I, I figured we haven't given you.
[00:39:22] Kenny Thunder: I appreciate that. I'm always picking last.
[00:39:25] Ronnie Jams: Yeah, usually you are.
I'm going to go. Carson Swezinger, he was probably the other reason we should have won the game today.
I mean, that strip sack is, was one of the most clutch plays of the year so far.
Unfortunately, our offense could do nothing with it. We promptly turned it into a three and out.
But yeah, I mean, that, that play alone could have won us the game.
And then for Bone, he once again failed to mail one in, so.
[00:39:54] Kenny Thunder: Oh, he mailed it into me. He said Malik Collins. Because he was all about getting pressure on the quarterback this week and he was excited to see the veteran, you know, creating, creating disruption up front.
[00:40:05] Ronnie Jams: Look at him go. He actually did get it in. I'm a little offended that he didn't text me as well in our group chat. Just you. Apparently we're friends.
[00:40:13] Kenny Thunder: Not you're, you're not actually friends.
[00:40:15] Ronnie Jams: Yeah, I think I'm gonna have to have words with them tomorrow.
I'm pretty shook right now. So, Kenny, do you have any final thoughts for the week?
[00:40:26] Kenny Thunder: I do. May not be a popular thought.
[00:40:29] Ronnie Jams: Do you want me to go first so we can end it on a bad note, or do you want to?
[00:40:33] Kenny Thunder: No. Maybe we should start. Maybe we should start with me finish.
[00:40:35] Ronnie Jams: Okay.
[00:40:37] Kenny Thunder: Look, I don't want to. Again, there's a lot of explanations here. There's a lot of people to blame.
I don't want to get ahead of my skis here, but if you're asking me in this moment, what is today's loss mean? What's, what's truly responsible here?
[00:40:53] Ronnie Jams: They are who we thought they were.
[00:40:56] Kenny Thunder: I think this was a game that you lost based on grit or lack of grit.
You know, everybody in the NFL that's a coach is a good coach. They wouldn't be in the NFL if they weren't. Everybody that's a player was a good, is a good player. And if everybody has good coaches and good Players. It's those other things. It's the, the, the intangibles, right. Like that start add up that determine who wins and who loses games. Today I think you saw a team that was overwhelmed by the atmosphere, by the conditions, by the rain, and that's not a great sign. Right. Like I think to this point we've been, we felt pretty good about like Todd Monkton coming in and changing the culture because they've been improving and working on all these little things. Today, I think was a different kind of test. It was the, the whole game was adversity. Right. And, and who can overcome it. And I don't, I think at the end of the day, like today, the, the jets were the team that had more fortitude and were able to deal with it and, and made enough plays to win the game. And what that means long term for this team, I don't know, but I hope it's a wake up call that like we need to be physically tougher, we need to be mentally tougher because we play in Cleveland, we're going to see rain again, we're going to see high winds, we're going to see cold, we're going to see Snow.
[00:42:20] Ronnie Jams: Only until 2029, baby.
[00:42:22] Kenny Thunder: Well, yeah, but, but like we're going to play in the elements again.
And this, if this is what they're going to do every time it's yucky outside, that's, that's not a path to success. So.
[00:42:35] Ronnie Jams: Correct.
[00:42:35] Kenny Thunder: Check me a box next to concerned as it relates to just the general toughness of this football team at this point in the season.
Now it's up to them to prove me wrong. Right? Like let the snow fall, let the winds pick up, let it rain again and have this team go out and put a gutsy performance on the board. And I'll walk that back. But like right now, that's what I saw today was a team that couldn't deal with the fact that it wasn't nice outside.
[00:43:01] Ronnie Jams: Yeah, fair.
So real quick, before I get into my final thought, I just want to say that your whole rant right now just has me counting down the days even more till we have that dome.
Because I know everybody likes to point to the Pittsburgh game a few years ago in the snow and say that's, that's why you don't have a dome. That's. We're like 1 in like 48 as far as games in any sort of weather.
When it comes to Cleveland, the Cleveland Browns, the weather does us no favors ever.
Ever.
And so I can't wait for the dome because we wouldn't have had to worry about them worrying and being soft because it was yucky out. We would have had a dome. Well, if this was a way, I guess. But still, you know what I'm saying? It's. I just can't wait for them to, to have the dome and just take this conversation out of it for the most part.
[00:43:54] Kenny Thunder: There's no place like dome.
[00:43:55] Ronnie Jams: Yeah. Yeah.
[00:43:56] Kenny Thunder: This Raul really doesn't. I mean, he really hates Shidor. He's. He's blaming Shidoru even though she door didn't play today. The one guy you probably can't blame for today's loss is Door Sanders. And this guy's trying to get in on it.
[00:44:10] Ronnie Jams: Yeah, yeah. He, he doesn't like him.
He must be behind his Luck Be a Lady stuff from earlier.
But anyways, my final thought for today is this, and it's actually a pretty upbeat one, is, is God damn. I love being a Cleveland Browns fan because in the span of five weeks we've gone from this is the absolute worst team that's ever stepped on a football field to we're going to make the playoffs, we're going to resign our quarterback.
We might even have super bowl aspirations coming up here soon. If we keep doing, we're doing too. Now everybody's back down to earth. Everybody's back like, yeah, we are so back with the, with the Cleveland Browns. And just of course it is the Browns of the Brown, like everything that everybody says all the time right there.
But guess what? All of the Cleveland Browns fans are going to show up in droves next week and cheer them on. And we all hate the Ravens and if they beat the Ravens, we're going to be back to the same. We're going to be in the playoffs and everything's going to be good again. So that's true.
[00:45:14] Kenny Thunder: I think everybody thought we for sure would beat the jets and the next week against the Ravens would be the true litmus test.
But the Browns sometimes do Browns, and today was one of those days.
[00:45:27] Ronnie Jams: It's true.
[00:45:27] Kenny Thunder: It's true. Feels bad, but it is. It's true. Like the, the roller coaster of emotion, just the, the, the frequency of different emotions you can feel inside of one week, two weeks, three weeks. It's, it's off the charts. It's uncanny. What I will say is if I can offer a final, final thought. Thank God for the Cleveland, for the Cleveland Guardians.
[00:45:46] Ronnie Jams: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
[00:45:47] Kenny Thunder: Good week.
[00:45:47] Ronnie Jams: Well, you could, you could go either way on that because thank God for The Cleveland Guardians or.
Way to go. Brown's messing up the Cleveland sports weekend again.
[00:45:56] Kenny Thunder: At least we had that right. It could be worse. We could be sitting mourning both the Guardians end of their season and end of the Brown season potentially.
But thank goodness for them.
Jose Ramirez.
[00:46:09] Ronnie Jams: I think Jose Ramirez needs to be the amazing. The first Cleveland player that gets a statue while he's still playing.
That dude is. He's. I think you. I think you're the one that texted it during the game. Kenny, you said. You said. I just told my son. There goes the greatest Cleveland player of all time.
[00:46:26] Kenny Thunder: I did. I was. I mean, the. The guy's taking a hometown discount to be here and has just been excellent all the time. And this was honestly a really tough season for him. Battling the injury didn't play particularly well all year long. But, like, in the most important moment of the season, that dude comes through.
We're just really fortunate to be here alive at this time, being able to watch this team while he's on it, you know, thank goodness for that. And look, I don't know that I have expectations for them in this Tampa series. Like, this kind of is what it is, but. But great season to this point. Super exciting weekend.
[00:47:00] Ronnie Jams: Shut your damn mouth. They're winning.
[00:47:02] Kenny Thunder: Well, I mean, look, it's October baseball. Anything can happen.
But was just super excited to watch guards and five.
Mean, I like the confidence, but guards in five.
We'll see. Kid Wilson says the muff punt is what cost us. We really didn't Brown. Kid Wilson, how many punts get muffed in the NFL on an average week?
That was the definition of the Browns. Browning.
[00:47:28] Ronnie Jams: Yeah, I don't disagree with you that.
That.
That was a really bad play, but that's like. Yeah, it doesn't happen very often, but it did to us.
[00:47:38] Kenny Thunder: Yeah, we've got one of the best.
[00:47:39] Ronnie Jams: In a very crucial point of the game that happened to us.
[00:47:42] Kenny Thunder: We got one of the best punters in the league. One of the best long snappers in the league is one. It's a really good unit, all things considered.
[00:47:48] Ronnie Jams: And big dude, they got to get a hold of. They got to get a hold of that guy that buys the crack houses in Cleveland. If anybody remembers that controversy from a while back,
[00:47:57] Kenny Thunder: I don't know where this show that we are totally off the rails at this point.
[00:48:02] Ronnie Jams: Yeah. So with that, let me remind everybody,
[00:48:05] Kenny Thunder: it was raining on the set tonight.
[00:48:08] Ronnie Jams: I love it.
Agreed.
It was raining.
[00:48:14] Kenny Thunder: It indeed was raining.
[00:48:15] Ronnie Jams: Let me remind everybody to call the Burger Sportscast Hot take hotline Hot take hotline. That's right. The party doesn't stop here. If you have more to tell us, just reach out to the hot take hotline. 3302-2780-8133-0227-808-1330, 22781. So we're talking to you, rad dog. We're talking to you, David Schoonover on Facebook. We're talking to you, kid. Wilson. Big dog. Was that Raul?
Who else? Here, Matthew's on here. All these guys.
Call the hot take hotline.
[00:48:49] Kenny Thunder: Yeah, call that.
[00:48:50] Ronnie Jams: You do derail professionally. You came on our show once and I have no idea what happened.
We all blacked out. But listen, be sure to check out our gear www.thetappinmedia.com backslash shop. All kinds of stuff in there. That'll do it for us. Kenny, what can we expect this week?
[00:49:07] Kenny Thunder: We'll have our normal weekly preview show that we will be out on Thursday this week back to our normal schedule. Obviously we'll be interviewing another Brownsbackers.
[00:49:15] Ronnie Jams: Wait, pause. Matthew, thank you.
Please call in. I love hearing you laugh on the hot take outline. This is the best part of the hot take off.
[00:49:24] Kenny Thunder: Good calls lately.
[00:49:25] Ronnie Jams: Yeah, sorry. Go on, Kenny. What are we doing?
[00:49:26] Kenny Thunder: Keep bringing the heat. But yeah, our normal show out Thursday, previewing the big game against the Ravens. We'll have another interview with the Browns backers group and and of course all the other things you listen to at the Burning River Sportscast for like hearing the same takes over and over and over and over again.
[00:49:40] Ronnie Jams: We're real original guys and check us out on social media. Tapping media is on Facebook X and Instagram at the tap media and burning every sportscast. That's this podcast. This one is on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube at Burning Sportscast and on X as well at the handle at Burning Pod and you find our podcast wherever each podcast talking Apple Podcast, Spotify, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Stitcher, Pandora Heart radio podcast, Castro Good pods. We're our number one ranked football podcast and so many more reviews. Reviews are the best thing you can do to help our podcast grow. Please keep supporting. We'll continue to bring you the best damn Cleveland Browns pod in the land.
That's it.
[00:50:12] Kenny Thunder: That's it. That's the show.
[00:50:14] Ronnie Jams: Thanks, Raul. Raul trolled us harder than he said. Good show, fellas.
[00:50:19] Kenny Thunder: Raul's a dog. We're all dogs.
Dog chat. Whatever that means.
Well, all I could say is don't just be a part of the problem. Be the whole damn problem.
[00:50:29] Ronnie Jams: And only you can prevent river fires burning River Sportscast.
[00:50:34] Kenny Thunder: Good night.
[00:50:35] Ronnie Jams: Good night, Cleveland.
[00:50:54] Kenny Thunder: Sam,
[00:51:21] Ronnie Jams: It.
