Episode Transcript
[00:00:00] Speaker A: Sam, It's time. Time for another very special live edition of the burning river sportscast.
Bills 23, Browns 20.
[00:01:02] Speaker B: You know, it only took it all over again. Yeah, it only took a whole season. You're getting pretty good at the the intro now. You don't wait like 35 seconds before you're like, oh, it's the music's over. I guess I should talk.
[00:01:12] Speaker A: It's really hard.
[00:01:14] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, the Browns, the Brown's not so good.
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[00:02:34] Speaker A: You name it, they frame it.
[00:02:36] Speaker B: And they provided all of our giveaways this year. So we appreciate that.
Yeah, thanks. Also make great gifts.
[00:02:43] Speaker A: Also make great gifts. Yeah.
[00:02:44] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:02:44] Speaker A: Last minute shoppers out there.
[00:02:46] Speaker B: Yeah. Christmas time. Chris. It's Chris. I don't want to sing a song right now. I thought about it but I didn't.
Today on the show this is what you can look forward to. Recap of today's Week 16 loss to the Bills. Another loss.
Imagine that.
A closer look at everything. Offense, defense, special teams are nominees for dog of the week because we like to keep it light here. And even though we lose so damn always, we still like to pick a dog of the week QB and coaching talk. Because let's be honest, what else is there really to talk about with this team until Miles Garrett breaks the record. Like, what else is there to talk about? And then I'm sure there's going to be more. But let's get things started by reminding everyone to call the burning sportscast hot take hotline.
[00:03:32] Speaker A: Yeah, call that hotline right there on your screen.
[00:03:35] Speaker B: You should be angry. If you're not angry by now, this team has three wins. If you're not angry by now, you don't, you might not have a pulse or you don't really like Cleveland football. One of the other.
[00:03:42] Speaker A: We're light on callers right now. Give us a call.
[00:03:45] Speaker B: Yeah, so 3302-2780-8133-0222-7808-1330-2278-0813-327-8081 call now. We'll put you on the air. We'll talk about your take on our full length show that comes out on Thursday.
So let's do it. Week 16 recap. We're gonna start with the special teams because they're just so damn awful.
Yeah, I, I had this running thing going where it was like, you know, last week. After that you think they couldn't get any worse and then here we are.
But it's just pointless now because you just expect it. So, yeah, they had a chance to cut it to seven, the big glaring one. I mean, it was. They had the chance to cut it to seven before the half. Bobbled snap. But Horquez has to throw it incomplete.
We're down by 10 still. We suck.
[00:04:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I was going to say, honestly, before that happened, like it did look like somebody lit a fire under an ass somewhere because the special teams seemed a little better. I mean, the coverage wasn't an absolute disaster today like it has been.
But of course, I mean, there's always room for the special teams to be super special because at the point that they had a chance to draw it to one score there before the half, of course you roll the snap.
[00:05:06] Speaker B: What's the best way to get the ball back to your to, to. The holder comes on the field for.
[00:05:11] Speaker A: Nine plays a game, he has one job to snap the ball and he rolled it there.
And I mean, they gave it a shot. BoJo thought about it, he was like, maybe I can get it up. And then realized there was about three guys that were about to pummel him and just picked it up and wisely kind of tossed it out of Bounds, but I mean, just, just things that should be automatic, things that should be. I mean, it wasn't an overly long, it was a moderately long, it's 40 something. But it wasn't like this was some kind of, you know, herculean effort they were trying to get done here and they had plenty of time to, you know, get the unit out on the field and everything because they got the ball effectively with I think, what, six seconds left.
[00:05:52] Speaker B: Put air quotes around that. The unit. The unit, yeah.
[00:05:55] Speaker A: And, and, and, and they basically dropped back through the ball out of bounds just to burn three seconds.
So they had, you know, they knew they were going onto the field, they knew they were kicking the field goal. They had plenty of time to get set up and get ready and still, you know, the most basic components of the game, the long snap to your home can't do it, goes, goes awry.
[00:06:17] Speaker B: And I honestly can't believe that Bubba Ventrone is going to finish the season as the special teams coordinator after the clinic of bad coaching that he's put on this year. Like I've seen, I've seen teams that, like, they're in interim head coach mode. They have like, nobody left basically on the staff that have better special teams than this.
[00:06:41] Speaker A: To be fair, Bubba said, these are the guys that you gave me as players. So this is. We suck.
[00:06:45] Speaker B: I'll give him that. He's the only one to call out the GM all season long, which I appreciate. He's like, I don't know if you would give me. If you do something for me.
[00:06:54] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:06:55] Speaker B: But then again, you know, he says that and he has guys like Carson Schwezinger. I don't know if you, you notice he had a couple tackles on kickoff today.
So like.
[00:07:04] Speaker A: Well, I think they're trying, I think they're trying to correct some of the gaps that they had. Like I said, the coverage was, was mostly, you know, better today than it has been. They even pulled off, they even pulled off a little bit of. I would, I don't know this trickery, but precision on the one kickoff early in the game where Buffalo's got a good returner. And so in attempt to not have him return the ball, Schmidt was able to kick the ball landed in the landing zone, but kick it through the end zone to get the old fashioned 20 yard touchback. So that, that was well done. And it was a very precise kick down to the, the corner pylon there in front of the end zone. And ball did, did exactly as they had hoped. So they, they were are making effort. I guess this week is the first time all year we've seen to. To change anything at all.
But still you have one of the most glaring gaffs in the entire game that, you know, and it's hard to. To say, oh, well, if they would have had that, they would have been tied because, you know, you don't know what. What happened after that. Buffalo maybe had. Would have pressed later in the game when the game tried to do something differently. It is crazy how the difference in the game.
[00:08:11] Speaker B: Yeah, it is crazy how it always works like that in football, that if something like that happens, typically the final score reflects, oh, you missed a field goal, right?
Yeah. So special teams got awful again. I honestly, at this point, like, as long as Kevin Stefanski is the head coach, I don't think Bubba Ventrum's going anywhere. He's just the guy.
So hopefully we only got two more games of this, but, you know, we'll see.
You want to do offense or defense first this week?
[00:08:40] Speaker A: Let's cover the defense first.
[00:08:42] Speaker B: All right, we'll start with defense. Defense was terrible again, at least for the first half. They played better in the second half, but at that point, it doesn't matter. Like, you're just playing catch up. And our. Our team as a whole, especially on offense, is not that good. So you can't put the team in a position for that. I mean, I mean, at one point before. Before, because I heard all, like, I watched the second half of the game at a Christmas party, and I heard multiple times, oh, the defense is playing pretty good. Buffalo's only got 20 points. Buffalo's only got 23 points, whatever it was. And I'm like, you guys do realize that at one point in the first half, and this was before it was even over, so there's probably a few more after this. But James Cook had nine rushes for a hundred yards and two touchdowns.
[00:09:22] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, he only finished the day with, I think, what, 113 or 117. So. But then they give him another 100 yards. Right. And they had some big gashes early on that.
Just inexcusable stuff. You know, we've been talking a lot about, you know, their inability to stop the run, and that doesn't allow them to rush the passer. And, you know, it was true.
They couldn't stop the run. And certainly it's. As the game wound down towards the end and they had to get first downs and keep drives moving. They were able to. And, yeah, for the most part, but I don't know that it was the wor. It was a terrible defensive effort. It was just not a great one.
And look, I think the, the important thing to like keep in mind is like the Buffalo Bills are a good football team.
Buffalo's good.
Ten wins on the season and the Browns aren't. We're not very good. And the fact that we were in this game at all, I mean, I think it's a testament to the resilience of the players on the field, you know, to battle adversity and still be in a position.
But you know, at some point, when push comes to shove, a better team is going to make plays than the worst team. And in a game like today where you're playing an opponent that is that much better than you, you have to have a special play here and there on the defense. You need a big turnover. You need a Miles Garrett sack at an opportune time that mattered in the game that we really never got today.
So you need, you need the big players to make big plays in big moments if you're going to knock off a team that is better than you and they just didn't today.
[00:10:55] Speaker B: Yep. Yeah, Miles Garrett, another half sack. But I mean, I think we were all hoping that that record was broken today.
The only one that just consistently.
And this isn't a knockout Miles at all. I'm not saying that he's not consistent. He's also consistent. But the, the most consistent player on our defense this year, despite the sack record, probably incoming is Carson Schweisingr.
[00:11:19] Speaker A: Oh, easily he's been good.
[00:11:21] Speaker B: I mean, another 14 tackles today.
This dude, like he's, he's the real deal. I think he's gonna be a perennial Pro Bowler.
Who knows, you know, as long as he can stay healthy, who knows what his ceiling is in this league because this dude might. You said it before we started the live show tonight. You said he's closing in on the all time rookie record for tackles.
[00:11:44] Speaker A: Yeah. So that's Patrick Willis in 2007, has 174 on the season and Shwesh is like 153 or 154 right now. So with two games to play for a guy that's been getting double digit tackles pretty much all year long, he's got a real look at the rookie record there. So future's bright at linebacker and, and you know, one guy I think that hasn't gotten a lot of credit this year, but played really well is Devin Bush. He's got over 100 tackles on the season.
You know, I think coming into this season, linebacker was a position group that, you know, a. We weren't sure about. We knew we had, you know, a draft pick there, but we weren't really sure what Swasher was going to be.
And you probably looked around and said, you know, hey, who are some of these guys? I mean, they got Jerome Baker and Mahmoud Diabati and Devin Bush out there, and it didn't look like it was the strongest group on the field. But frankly, with Swes being an all pro type player caliber player, and Devin Bush has been more than serviceable this year. He's been really good.
That linebacking core has been. Has been better than advertised.
And I think they've gone away from having three backers on the field primarily because of injury and attrition most of the time. And they play a lot of extra DBs, that sort of thing, or extra lineman up front. So, you know, they're mixing it up with the personnel they have. But the linebackers themselves as a group have played well this year.
[00:13:05] Speaker B: Yeah, well, yeah. I mean, going into the season, you just thought they were going to be an absolute liability in the fact that for most of the season. I know I'm kind of shitting on them again tonight, but for most of the season, they were the number two ranked defense in the league. So, I mean, that speaks to how they were able to shore up that. That linebacking core. So.
But yeah, I mean, overall, I don't know. I just.
I'm. I'm hopeful that that second half is what we'll see the rest of the season. They kind of figured a few things out, and they're. They're kind of back on track. I know it doesn't mean anything, but we do have division games these next two weeks, so as much as it doesn't mean anything, it means this.
And. And this is actually a pretty serious point that I wanted to make today. It means a lot to Kevin Stefanski. Not that I like Kevin Stefanski, because I don't at all. I hope we lose both. I don't hope we lose both games because I don't want the Browns to lose every week.
But the silver lining in them losing the next two weeks will be that you are at the point where Jimmy Haslam specifically said before the season started, you can't be 3 and 14. That won't cut it.
And so at that point, you're almost forced to fire Kevin Stefanski.
[00:14:12] Speaker A: Yeah, I don't think they had any thought that they would be quite this bad all season long. I think they thought they were not going to win a whole lot, but I think they thought this team was capable of winning five or six games, you know, all things being equal. So, yeah, they're right there. They're on the doorstep of, of Jimmy's prophecy there.
The final things I'll say about the defense is, you know, honestly, like, they've struggled against the run a little bit all year. They've given a lot of 100 yard rushers.
But even coming into like today's game, and again, we're thinking about season long attrition. You know, Denzel didn't play today. Mike Hall Jr. Was out today.
Sam Kamara, who's kind of been a depth piece because they've had Blake Collins go out and so he's like, he didn't play today. So you're, you're missing depth and starters across that defense on top of a defense that already had injuries and holes.
[00:15:04] Speaker B: So maybe that's the offseason.
[00:15:05] Speaker A: I don't know. That's super surprising that they've struggled the way they have because you're just missing guys that should be out there.
[00:15:11] Speaker B: So maybe it's the offseason where they finally address strength and conditioning because I don't care what anybody says. I know, I know everybody will sit there and tell you, oh, every team deals with injuries, blah, blah, blah, blah. No, nobody deals with injuries like the Browns do. Like there. I think it's the past probably three, four seasons in a row. Our entire team is hurt by the end of the season.
[00:15:30] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I don't have any empirical numbers on that. We should probably look that up, but it's.
[00:15:35] Speaker B: It's like I can't.
[00:15:37] Speaker A: It does feel that way.
[00:15:38] Speaker B: It's always like the whole offensive line, most of the receiving core, a couple running backs.
[00:15:44] Speaker A: Well, the offensive line, though, we knew. Right. I know we're talking defense right now. Like, we knew that was a problem. We knew all the guys across that offensive line were ancient, injury riddled and we did nothing to, to address it.
[00:15:55] Speaker B: So why would you.
[00:15:56] Speaker A: Why, why would you. Why would you do that?
[00:15:59] Speaker B: But, yeah, so the defense overall, not great, but they played better the second half that, you know, we had a chance. The Browns had a chance to win, surprisingly.
So. The fact that they were there means the defense at least did their jobs in the second half.
[00:16:15] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, every time the team, every time this Browns team loses, people shake their heads and go, oh, they're so disappointing. This team is awful. And I hate being a Browns fan all These things.
I watched this game today and sure I'm disappointed that they lost, but this was the first week that I felt like, you know, I kind of almost felt optimistic after this game because with five minutes left in the fourth quarter against a 10 win football team. You're right there. You're right there. Before this game occurred, every single person on our show, every single person in all of the media picked the Browns to get trampled. Vegas had it as an 11 point spread.
No one expected the Browns to be hanging around to have a shot to win this game. They thought this was going to be a game that they lose by two scores. So the fact that with five minutes left in the game, you even had a look at it means the guys that were out there, a lot of rookies, undrafted talent and guys that are filling in for starters, fought through adversity, were resilient and, and came through and tried to do everything could, but at some point if you just, if you go into a fight with a guy that's bigger than you, you're, you could put up a good fight for a while, but that guy's probably going to, to, to pummel you at some point. And that's what happened today. This wasn't an embarrassing.
[00:17:34] Speaker B: This is basically Jake Paul over the weekend.
[00:17:36] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean that guy was huge.
Like at some point he will break your jaw and you could go five, six rounds with him. That's fine. Like it's a valiant effort but no one expected you to win that game. So the fact that they lost, like I wasn't surprised by it. I wasn't overly disappointed or embarrassed by it. Like last week in Chicago, the team put up a effort all, all day long. They didn't look like they want to be there. So to come off of that, and I felt like that it was cold last, you know, I thought that was going to permeate in like the end of the season was probably just going to look like that game. And the fact that they came back and at least put some fight into that game today, I thought was a good sign.
Now let me be clear. While I was optimistic and felt good about the fact that this team played hard today, by no means am I saying anything is fixed because the reason you lost that game was still on the fact that you have piss poor coaching, piss poor scheme and piss poor personnel groups across the field, which is Kevin Stefanski's fault and Andrew Barry's fault totally. The fact that you don't have an offensive line, the fact that you don't have any receivers that can separate and catch the ball. The fact that you don't have any depth across the defense, like these are all personnel things and, and they did what they could that they had, but at some point the better team wins out.
[00:18:51] Speaker B: Yeah. And, and we'll get, we'll get to the Quinshon injury more in a minute, but I attribute that specifically to the predictability of Kevin Stefanski's offense. We ran that play how many times? And then finally the guy keyed on it was like, that's it. This guy is like. I, I just, it's amazing how many times during our games that you could sit there and I like, I'm not claiming to be a football genius. I never have. I think I know a decent amount about football enough to be a little dangerous occasionally. But here's the point. He's an NFL head coach and if I can call out your plays before they happen, that's not good.
[00:19:30] Speaker A: Good.
[00:19:30] Speaker B: No, I'm, I'm me.
[00:19:34] Speaker A: They were in 64 offensive plays today.
Five of those were end arounds and reverses.
[00:19:43] Speaker B: Yeah, that's eight.
[00:19:44] Speaker A: That's 8% of their offense was, was gadget trickery. And, and Kevin gets all this credit for being this offensive innovator. The only thing he's ever done remotely innovative is run a reverse. It's the only thing that I've ever seen that I go, wow, that was fun. But usually they go for nothing. They were relatively successful today for the most part, until the fifth time they ran it and the Bills were like, okay, you're gonna keep running this shit all game long. We're gonna find the key on it. But, but, and, and I know, right? The offense is strapped for talent, so they're trying to, trying to find other ways to get the ball in guys hands. So I, I get it. But three end arounds and two double reverses, like, that's just not, that's not an offense. That is an NFL offense. You might.
[00:20:27] Speaker B: Yeah. The only, the only two innovative things about that are the fact that he's the only one that will just run end rounds and reverses as many times as he possibly can during a staple of the offense. Yeah. And two, he's the only guy that they consistently go for negative yardage and he's like, I'm gonna keep doing this.
So.
Yeah, I don't know. And when we do get them right. We've talked about this plenty of times. When they do get them right, they go for like 12 and you're like, oh, moderately. We got a first down. Good job.
[00:20:54] Speaker A: And it's like I almost. I almost shudder when they do get it right and they make a decent play because I'm like, oh, God, he's going to do it again. Now we know another one's coming.
[00:21:05] Speaker B: It's funny you say that. So before we get fully into the offense, I wanted to catch up on some of these comments. James Frank is back on Facebook this week after a brief hiatus.
Said it's been a while. Is the season over yet?
Insert explicit words here.
Harold Fannin, Dog of the week. We'll get there. Most rookie receptions.
Miles will get the record against Pittsburgh, which is what he wanted, which actually is. Is kind of. Kind of nice, the fact that he's gonna get it against Pittsburgh.
And then he talked about the Chiefs having our luck.
He wants to know, what's on your hood. Are those ears? What is that?
[00:21:44] Speaker A: I think it. I think it's a reindeer. I think it's Rudolph.
[00:21:47] Speaker B: Yeah. Put your head down. Yeah, reindeer.
[00:21:48] Speaker A: Reindeer ears and antlers.
[00:21:51] Speaker B: He said he took a mental health hiatus. He just. He just. That's smart in there.
[00:21:55] Speaker A: You gotta do that in this type of season. You gotta do that.
[00:21:57] Speaker B: That's why we take the off season off, because we're like. We only do, like, three shows during the off season. We do like a draft sp special, some. Some free agency stuff and maybe a special from a golf course for an outing or something like that. But we take the offseason off or else we would drive ourselves nuts.
And then the last one I wanted to highlight from him, he said the. It was exactly what you just said. And that's what made me think about doing the comments before we started on the offense. He said, the Bond one was the best. And once I seen it, I said, oh, we'll see more of these today.
Yeah, 100.
Yep. Then Josh lynch over on.
I'm not sure if he's on Twitter or on YouTube, but what up, dog?
[00:22:37] Speaker A: I would. I would caution this whole idea that Miles is going to get the record against Pittsburgh, because, I mean, the. Miles has talked about this, that the guys from Pittsburgh have said, like, we. We have been explicitly told, like, if there's going to be a sack to hold Miles in or, you know, create a penalty somewhere, not to let him get a sack against them.
[00:22:56] Speaker B: I think he's going to get it for the simple fact that if he doesn't break it next week, then there's going to be this little asterisk that's like, well, you took 17 games.
[00:23:04] Speaker A: Well, and I Think that. Well, so that was going to be my next point after that. So. But I think that there is a concerted effort now, right where the Bills said it today, right? Like they didn't want to be the offense that gave up the Miles Garrett record. They didn't want to have that in the history. In the footnote that Miles Garrett broke the sack record against the Bills.
You're gonna get the best effort from these offensive lines here these last two weeks, because nobody wants to be on in that footnote. And the second thing is, it's exactly what you just said, which is, I really hope he does do it against Pittsburgh, because then you're going to end up with the whole, well, he took him 17 games and these other guys did it in 16. And like, there's some kind of qualifier.
[00:23:43] Speaker B: Did T.J. watt do it in 16? Was it still 16 games at that point or was it. Was it right when it turned to 17?
[00:23:49] Speaker A: I think it was. I think it was still 16. I don't know for certain on it. I had to look up the year. But regardless, TJ Watt just tied the record anyway, so, yeah, it wasn't like he said, a new one, so.
[00:24:01] Speaker B: True.
True. Strahan definitely did it in 16 games, so.
[00:24:05] Speaker A: He definitely did. But even his has the asterisk, right? Because that last sack was Brett Favre falling over, and he basically bailed out of the play. And Strahan had the touch sack on it, which. Which, I mean, Miles is sack today.
Little bit like that, the half sack that he was credited for, which now, to be fair, Miles had the pressure. I mean, Miles is the reason that he. He bailed out and hit the ground, but.
But he was on the ground and. And they just kind of tapped him dead, so.
[00:24:35] Speaker B: Yep. So let's go ahead and talk offense here.
We'll start. We're going to save Shador for last just because I know it's going to take the longest to talk about, but we'll talk about Judkins before the injury. Eight rushes, 22 yards. Yards, 2.8 yards per carry, five catches for 29 yards. Then obviously, the terrible leg injury, knee injury.
Just a quick look. I don't know. Have they announced anything yet?
[00:25:00] Speaker A: Yeah, he's got a fractured tibia or something and a dislocated ankle. I forget exactly what. I can probably find it, but it's. It's definitely. There's a break.
[00:25:09] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:25:09] Speaker A: Fractured dislocated ankle and fractured fibula.
[00:25:13] Speaker B: Any. Anything torn?
[00:25:15] Speaker A: It doesn't say. That's all it says Right now, so.
[00:25:17] Speaker B: Which is actually a good thing. If there's nothing torn, that's a good thing. Because that's probably a shorter recovery, but.
[00:25:24] Speaker A: Odd because, I mean, it was a. It was a violent tackle, but it wasn't anything like when it happened in real time. I didn't think, like, oh, boy, he's gonna be down, you know, for the count.
Clearly after the fact, he was, you know, punching the. The dirt and in a lot of pain.
But we never even got a replay of it. In fact, when they came back from the injury timeout, the commentator said that basically out of respect to the viewers and to Quinn, Shawn, that they weren't going to show the replay. So it was apparently very graphic in nature, whatever shot they did have of it happening. But if you watch that play over and over and over again, I mean, it kind of looks like, you know, it kind of looks like the knee was bent funny or whatever, but.
But it was also a weird angle, so. And it was just tough to really tell. So I don't know. Again, in real time, I didn't think, like, this was a devastating injury, but clearly, you know, one of those awkward kind of wraparound, you know, tackles that stuff just started bending the wrong way.
[00:26:22] Speaker B: Yeah. If. If what you said is true, though, and there's no tears, that makes me feel good about next season then. Because originally when they said that, he was carted off, and I did catch somebody put a still up on.
On X of just his leg, like sideways, and I was like.
[00:26:39] Speaker A: But even that still was very misleading because I think at the angle, it was like. I don't know that it was like a compound fracture, that his leg was really bent that way because when he rolled back on it, his legs appeared to be straight. It didn't look like his feet were bent funny or anything like that. So I don't. Again, I don't know, because we didn't see the replay. So I don't know exactly what it looked like.
[00:26:58] Speaker B: But.
But when I saw the still, though, when I saw the still picture, it's exactly. James Frank just commented again. He said brought back flashbacks of chub injury. And that's exactly what it like. I was. I was like, oh, God, is this another Chub? I think I even texted you guys. I said, Chub 2.0. Here we go.
[00:27:14] Speaker A: Every text message I got right after that happened was, oh, no, it's chub all over again.
[00:27:18] Speaker B: Yeah. So hopefully not. Hopefully it's just breaks. Hopefully when they get in there to repair everything, they don't Find anything torn and, and it's just breaks because that means like, you know, eight to 12, eight to 12 weeks, depending on the severity and you're, you're probably good to go. The dislocation is the most concerning thing because things stretch out real funny when that stuff happens.
[00:27:35] Speaker A: Yeah.
Yeah. I mean, hopefully he can, you know, be. Be up and right for next year. We'll see. I don't know. I mean, the. I saw a number of like, third party, you know, people just that watch the replay like that are, you know, doctors. There's Twitter pages of doctors that break down sports injuries in real time. Of course, based on the video, I.
[00:27:54] Speaker B: Can tell based on the video that this is what happened. I never looked at their ankle for real, but let me.
[00:27:59] Speaker A: So I don't know that we've heard from anyone in the actual medical community that is. Is working on Quinn, Sean, but according to a bunch of doctors on Twitter, he should be back.
[00:28:07] Speaker B: For now we got to be friends with somebody that's like a doctor, so they could just like. Let me bring on Dr. So and so to tell us exactly what happened here.
[00:28:15] Speaker A: I know some orthopedists.
[00:28:16] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah. So, but anyways, so yeah, Quinn, Sean, hopefully he's. He's up and back soon. Harold Fannin, he only had four catches, but he looked good again today. Had two touchdowns on the day, one receiving, one rushing, I believe. Yeah, when you don't have any running backs anymore, you got to use a tight end to run the ball.
[00:28:33] Speaker A: So, yeah, I mean, the first touchdown was nice. That was the very first drive that they had and it was kind of a little flat route and he found his way into the corner of the end zone there.
It was. It was just that first drive was, was really well done.
[00:28:48] Speaker B: Classic Stefanski. I'm really good on the first drive. I'm really bad the rest of the game.
[00:28:53] Speaker A: And then the, the touchdown run was. I mean, they were down essentially on the one yard line and they kind of went like full house jumbo package and did a little like reverse pivot inside handoff to him and he just barely got across.
[00:29:10] Speaker B: So apparently bad night for rookie apparently bad night for rookie Ohio State running backs because James Frank said Henderson went down today too.
[00:29:18] Speaker A: I didn't see that. I got the game on in the background, but I must have missed it.
[00:29:21] Speaker B: Yeah. Anyways, so now, now we will get to Shador because we can't really finish talking about the offense without him.
I thought Shador overall looked really good today.
I mean, I know he threw two picks to one interception. Everybody's gonna be like, oh, the stats say this.
We talk about this all the time. You can't just look at the stats. You got to watch the game.
The first one hit Quinn Shawn in the shoulder pads and bounce straight up in the air to the defender.
And the second one, Joey Bosa, just made a good play on it, right? So he. He just jumped up and knocked it down at the line of scrimmage. And it's same thing ricocheted right to a defender. And that stuff happens sometimes. It's not like you don't look at that and you say that's a bad decision or that was a bad. You know what? It was.
[00:30:04] Speaker A: The. The first one to Quinn, Sean definitely was. Was, you know, just worst case scenario, really bad luck. I saw a lot of people. There's a lot of people that just hate Shador. Right? So anytime he does something bad. Yes. You hear the, oh, well, he's got to put that ball on the money, guys. It hit him in the shoulder pad. I mean, I don't know. Yes. Was it a little bit behind him? Yes. Not every throw in the NFL is perfect. That's why these guys make millions of dollars to catch a football.
It's a tough game, and when it hits you in the. In the numbers and in the hands, like, you got to come down with the ball and. And if you don't, weird shit like that happens. So it was very unfortunate that it occurred the way that it did because really, up until that point, Shador was pretty much flawless. He had played a really good game up to that point. And to your point, I think he played most of the game at a high level.
The. The one to Bosa that got tipped was, you know, one that, as he gets more reps and is. Is a better pro a year from now, maybe he doesn't. Doesn't have that issue. But it was just a really good play by. By Bosa and he tipped it up. And, you know, it's just one of those things that happens. But it certainly wasn't like a misread or. Or an errant throw. He was trying to make a play. A hand got up and bumped it up into the air. It was t drill, and Buffalo came down with it. So, you know, both of those were a little bit fluky. The one to Bosa, maybe you could say, okay, he should have either tucked it and ran, or you threw the ball away. Like, I don't know. There's other decisions you could make there. But he was trying to force it and make a play. And, and I think when you are the entire team right now, this is what I don't think people realize. If you're not watching the Browns week in and week out and you're just looking at the box score going, this guy sucks. This entire offense right now is Shador Sanders. He has been the leading rusher for this football team essentially since he took over as the quarterback five weeks ago. So when you're the leading rusher, Andrew, which is.
[00:31:57] Speaker B: Hold up, pause on that point because mind you, Quinn Sean Judkins is one of the leaders for like rookie of the offensive rookie of the year this year. So the, the running back for this team is one of the top candidates for offensive rookie of the year and our rookie quarterback is the leading rusher since he's been in, since he's been playing and for most games.
[00:32:17] Speaker A: And when you point out the fact that Quinn Shawn was averaging 2.8 yards of carry, everybody goes, well, the offensive line's terrible. He's getting contacted in the backfield. So is Shador every time he tries to throw the football. So that those, that goes both ways. The offensive line is bad for him as well.
And right now he is doing literally everything. And I know that's the old adage, right? You got to put the whole team on your back. He's a rookie quarterback in his fifth game. I don't, I don't know against, against a 10 win football team. I thought he availed himself very well today. All the things that we keep talking about seeing improvement on, like he is making strides and making effort to correct, stepping up into the pocket and trying to get rid of the ball, not making, I mean he didn't throw any balls directly to defenders today. It wasn't like he made bad reads and bad passes.
[00:33:01] Speaker B: Right. And that was my point with the, with the interceptions earlier. Like he did fine. Yeah.
[00:33:06] Speaker A: Just those things just happen. They look bad on the box score, but they were just weird things that happen.
And, and you can't just, you can't erase it all. You can't just say like always a rookie but like he is. He's going to make mistakes.
[00:33:20] Speaker B: I think the point with saying that he's a rookie is the fact that you go like I, you constantly get killed like on, on reels of ours that are weeks old at this point because people just wait and they just want to take their shot. When they, when they feel like the timing's right, people jump in and they're like, oh, he looks good today. Two interceptions on the day or whatever they say, you know, all the different chatter that comes along with it. And it's like all these people expect this dude to be beyond Tom Brady prime at the beginning of his career. Like, they. Everybody forgets. Everybody wants everything right this second, right now. They forget that. Even Tom Brady, even Peyton Manning, even all these. These guys. And I'm not saying he's going to be them, because that's another thing we always get. Oh, you're comparing him to the greats. No, you are, actually, by wanting him to be that right now.
He's not that right now. He's not going to be that. Maybe ever.
[00:34:10] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:34:11] Speaker B: But the fact is he's playing really well for a rookie and. And he has no offense. None. There's. There's no wide receivers here. I'm almost done, Kelly. I'll let you jump at it. There's no wide receivers here. We now have no running backs. There's no offensive linemen. Like, he's been the leading rusher almost every game that he's been the quarterback for the Browns. And he's a guy that came in here and everybody said he couldn't move, he couldn't get out of the pocket and make plays. He's the leading rusher for your team almost every week since he's been here. Not to mention he's making solid reads as a quarterback, as a passer. And. Yeah, has there been some mistakes? Has there been some interceptions? Sure. But today's a good example. There was no bad decisions. It was things that didn't go our way that caused interceptions. And I'm not saying that's. That's. He's without fault 100%. I'm just saying he didn't do anything wrong necessarily in those plays. And he has progressed significantly. He looks night and day different than he did against Baltimore when he came in just cold off the bench. So for everybody sit here and act like he's supposed to be perfect, it's just an absolutely ridiculous just, just theory that you guys have that he can come out here and somehow just make this team look like a Super bowl team. This team is bad. This team is bad.
[00:35:29] Speaker A: And it's getting worse every week.
[00:35:31] Speaker B: Yeah. So, yeah, we. We lose people every week. Kevin Stefanski is still your coach. And that's the other thing that I didn't even touch on here. It doesn't matter how good the rest of the team is. You still are running Kevin Stefanski's offense, so it doesn't matter what quarterback you put back there. They're gonna look like ass. Yeah, his offense is terrible. And, and it's. Here's an example. Look at today's box score, and you got Shador Sanders, who, in my opinion, had a decent game, 20 to 29, but it's for 157 yards because he's not allowed to throw the ball downfield. They don't let anybody throw the ball downfield. Like, luckily we have Shador, who occasionally will just take a shot. He'll be like, effort. I'll go to my third read and just throw this down there. But, but here's the other thing. He's taking two sacks. So for all you people that say, get rid of the ball.
He took two sacks today for 21 yards. And at the end of the game, at the bottom of the very top of his drop back, as soon as he's back there, there's people in his face. What are you going to do?
[00:36:25] Speaker A: Yeah, he made a bunch of points that I wanted to respond to, but now I can't remember.
[00:36:29] Speaker B: Just go through them. Have your own rant here. Because I, I got fired up and I just, I'm sick of hearing how he's supposed to be perfect. He can't be perfect. I mean, especially not with this team.
[00:36:39] Speaker A: I think the first thing is that you've seen marked improvement week to week over the things that he has struggled with. And, and so whether it was, you know, stepping up into the pocket, taking what the defense gives him, like all. All those types of things we've seen him grow in specifically this week. The, the one, you know, kind of bugaboo that people have been on him about is, oh, he completed 74 of your passes in college and you're completing 55 of your passes in your first four starts. Today. He was 20 at 29. He completed almost 70% of his passes today. So that was something that he took and said, hey, I got to make better. Better reads, better throws, and I got to get the ball out on time because I got to get to. I got to get the guy, the guys, the ball in a place they can make a play. And so again, you start. It's just every week there's. There's some kind of improvement that you can look back and go, hey, this is getting better. This is better than the week before.
And if you are just a box score warrior, then you would have to look at today's game and go, well, gee, Josh Allen was 12 and 19 for 130 yards, no touchdowns. Well, that guy sucks. Well, no, Josh Allen doesn't suck. It was just. If you watch the game, you understand that's how the game played out. Like, they ran the ball a lot. They didn't have to throw.
So you can't just. The box score doesn't tell the whole story without watching the game. And so it just cracks me up, these people, that every week you see the post, it's like, oh, well, she door through two picks today. Is that legendary Browns fans. You didn't. You didn't watch him. You didn't watch the ball bounce off of Quinn Shawn's shoulder pads and into the hands of Buffalo Bill, Right?
And it's just. It's just so frustrating. But he continues to make strides. His offense looks night and day better than it did earlier in the season. Is it great yet? No, it's not great. Your personnel isn't good. Great. He is a rookie. He's going to continue to make mistakes, but he is growing and he is growing and making measurable strides each week.
You mentioned that, you know, it was tough to stretch the field today especially, and that was because they were intentionally trying to play their defense to Shador's strength, which has been in the four weeks that he started, he had 10 completions over 30 yards. Okay, they got some tape on this guy. They know that that's his game. So they took that away today. And you know what Shador did? He worked underneath. He completed a lot of short passes. Today. He wasn't trying to force the ball into a bad spot. He said, I'm going to make the right read and the right throw, and I'm going to hope that, you know, the scheme that we've drawn up allows us to continue to move the football. But he has learned enough now to say, hey, that coverage is there. I can't throw it into that.
So every week you're seeing this kind of measured improvement in all these facets of his game. And is he a superstar yet? No, but that's all you want out of a rookie, a rookie quarterback. Is he getting better each week? I had no expectation that they were going to win this game today. And again, with five minutes left in the game, they had a chance. And it was just the sheer attrition of the game. I mean, you lost Quinshon and you had no running game other than Shador. I will say Raheem Sanders was a nice little boost in the arm today.
I haven't seen a whole lot of him this year. He's kind of bounced around a little bit, but at one point he Was averaging, you know, four and a half, five yards of carry and a couple of rushes late in short yardage that I think killed his average for the day to. To be under four. But for a while there, he was making really nice inside runs. And, you know, it shouldn't surprise me at this point when you have performances like that at a. Guys that kind of come out of nowhere and you go, like, this guy's been on the roster all year, on the practice squad. Why haven't we seen him? Because this team is terrible at evaluating talent. But I really liked what I saw. A lot of Raheem Sanders. Not to take away from Shador altogether, but I just wanted to make that point while I was thinking about it, because he was. He's a really tough inside runner. They've struggled in short yardage situations, goal to go, goal line situations, trying to figure out. And you're running the wildcat and all this. When you've had a guy in Raheem Sanders that is a. A hard, tough nosed inside runner, you know, he. He kind of runs. I'm not saying he is these guys, but he kind of runs like a Marianne Barber or a Frank Gore or a Corey Dillon, like, tough inside guy that can get 2 and 3 yards when you absolutely have to have it.
And I was just, like, frustrated thinking to myself, like, why haven't we seen this guy in short yardage throughout the season?
[00:41:07] Speaker B: Because we like to run our tight end under the backup center.
[00:41:10] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, we like to run that instead of just saying, hey, here's the guy that's 6 foot and 230, and he can get 2 yards when you need it.
[00:41:16] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:41:17] Speaker A: So he was a nice shot in the air. But back to Shador, I just.
[00:41:20] Speaker B: He's.
[00:41:22] Speaker A: He is what I would hope you're. You would get out of a rookie quarterback. And I think he's exactly what we.
[00:41:28] Speaker B: Didn'T get out of Dylan Gabriel, when that's the.
[00:41:30] Speaker A: The biggest thing is you watch Dylan every week, and there was no progression, there was no progress. He didn't do anything better five weeks in that he didn't do in week one like he was doing. He. He kind of stayed on the same trajectory the whole time, which we knew that coming out. We knew that was the kind of player that he was, and we didn't have expectations that he was gonna be able to do much more.
But Shador, you're constantly seeing improvement, and I just don't know that you can draft another rookie and go, I mean, if the. If the bar for Evaluating the quarterback to say, hey, does this guy deserve a spot on our roster? Isn't he gets better every week.
I don't know. You're not going to draft Tom Brady out of. Out of Oregon or out of Indiana and he's going to show up on day one and lead this team to a Super Bowl. That's just not going to happen. The best case scenario is you watch that guy win three or four games next year and he gets better each week was just what you have in Shador Sanders right now.
So I just.
[00:42:32] Speaker B: What's the saying? Like, Browns fans can't see the forest for the trees or the tree. The tree for the. Whatever the saying is. Like, that's where. That's where we're at. Like, you can't see the Shador Sanders because you're focused on quarterbacks next year. Like, it's going to be the same thing. Like, it doesn't matter who you get. They're not going to be that good next year.
[00:42:51] Speaker A: Everybody's all hot and bothered about Dante Moore after this weekend's game because he beat to be James Madison. And like, I don't even did.
[00:42:59] Speaker B: That guy's really good.
[00:43:00] Speaker A: If you're a casual football fan, did you even know they were a university before this weekend? Like, I don't know.
But let me remind you, for anybody that is thinking Dante Moore is going to step into Berea next season and turn this team into a contender. This is a guy who started his career in ucla, played in five games there, transferred to Oregon and wasn't better than Dylan Gabriel.
He couldn't beat out Dylan Gabriel. The guy has 18 starts in college football. You think that guy is going to come in and offer you something different than you're getting from Shador? Something way better, exponentially better that you can. You can build around that guy, but you can't build around Shador. Get real.
I got no. I got. I.
[00:43:49] Speaker B: The.
[00:43:49] Speaker A: Dylan Gabriel has turned me off to all Oregon quarterbacks for all time. At least this point. I never want another one.
[00:43:55] Speaker B: It's kind of. It's kind of like the Notre Dame treatment. Like, I don't. I don't want anybody from Notre Dame.
[00:43:58] Speaker A: But when you. But when you specifically consider he wasn't better than Dylan Gabriel, that's damning enough that I would not want to draft him.
[00:44:08] Speaker B: Yeah, I mean, I agree with that.
I. I don't. I don't know. And then I just.
I'm so frustrated with the Shador Sanders thing because it. Seriously, if he was anybody other than Shore, Sanders, right now, all of Brown, like all the dog pound, the entire Browns, fan nation, whatever you want to call them.
All of us would be like, oh, man, we gotta. We found a dude in the fifth round, and instead we're sitting here saying, I don't like Shador Sanders. Because, you know, it was Shador Sanders.
He's. He's, he's cocky and confident and we just don't like that. Like, that's, that's your hang up on the dude.
[00:44:50] Speaker A: You know what's so funny about that too, is like, he hasn't said or done anything since he's been drafted here. I mean, the, the mime press conference, maybe you go, ah, his quarterback should handle themselves differently. But he hasn't been a problem in the locker room or said anything in particular that was like, egregious. You know who did create a problem? Dylan Gabriel's girlfriend, saying, everybody in Cleveland wants Dylan to be the starter, but they gotta place your door.
And not to call out Wyatt Taylor, but Wyatt Teller's mom on Twitter. Like, like people, like people besides Shador are the, are the ones that always.
[00:45:28] Speaker B: Speaking of White Teller, I don't know if this is the right time to do this.
[00:45:33] Speaker A: I mean, we love Wyatt. I'm not saying that why it's a problem. I'm just saying, like, people that. The people that you didn't expect.
Oh, thanks for sending us a postcard this year, Carly.
[00:45:43] Speaker B: We got a Christmas card from the Tellers this year, so I know there's a lot of people that get these, but it.
If you send your address to Carly Teller on, on X, she'll. She'll send out Christmas cards to as many people as she can. And we've. We've got one as a show for the past. Was it four years? Three years? Yeah. There's two up, two up in the studio right. Next year. Right. So this is the third year, but. And the Tellers are awesome.
[00:46:07] Speaker A: Yeah, Tellers are great. And, and that was kind of a little bit of a surprise because he was kind of expecting. Expected to play today.
And obviously there's some, you know, politicking going on because they were doing the rotation stuff or whatever for the last couple of weeks. And I know they ruled him out officially due to injury today, but it was kind of like they. We expected him to play. And then at the last minute, about an hour before game time, the news broke that he wasn't well.
[00:46:32] Speaker B: We go back to when he was originally injured and he was like, I mean, I'm, I'm Good.
[00:46:37] Speaker A: Yeah. I mean, that whole thing has been shrouded in mystery. So, I mean, I maintained that I want my best players on the field when I have a rookie quarterback back there. And Wyatt's one of those. The offensive line was terrible again today. Katie Levenston is, is an absolute liability. I mean, he had a, an offsides and a holding call on, on the same drive today.
I mean, this offensive line is just in shambles, which, which we all know and you can't fix it two weeks.
[00:47:01] Speaker B: Before, which again, going back to your point with the whole Shador thing and the quarterbacks coming out next year is a whole other reason why Shador has shown you more than enough to say, let's build around me. Let's go get some offensive linemen and wide receivers in this draft because there are some really good wide receivers at the top of this draft. There is a lot of offensive linemen. So you're looking at your picks are probably going to be what, like four or five? Is our first pick, maybe as high as three, depending on who wins next week. And then our second pick, I would.
[00:47:34] Speaker A: Guess round picks and move up for, for Dante Moore and see how he fares behind this offensive line again without adding more talent to this offensive line.
[00:47:42] Speaker B: Yeah, so. Yeah, but that second pick, though will be 15 to 22. So you're looking at 15 to 22 and you're saying a lot of offensive line in this draft. You can get a solid one there. You can get another solid one in the second round if you want to go that way again, like what. What are we. Why is this even a question? Do the right thing. Just none of these quarterbacks are worth a top five pick.
[00:48:05] Speaker A: And I keep going back to. That's why I have started to like Shador more and more every week because he is making improvement. But that's why I've said all along is they should turn the team over to him in the off season, make him the starter, get a full off season under his belt and add the talent around him that you need to have a competent football team because that's going to do a bunch of things for you, which is a. You're going to figure out really quickly whether or not Shador is any good, because now you've got talent around him. And if he can't, and if he can't compete with that, then okay, maybe he's not the guy. And if he's not the guy and he wins three games, the problem takes care of itself because you're picking early and you can get your quarterback next year. And you know what that also does? That new quarterback that comes in then in 27 has a good offensive line and a good receiver to throw the ball to.
So there's no downside to letting Shador play out next year other than like whatever arbitrary timelines and. And checklists that you're trying to. To accommodate for your coaching staff in your front office. If you're saying, hey, like, you gotta win eight games next year or you're fired, or we bring in a new coaching staff next year or new gm, like, all those types of. Types of things start to play into that equation. But if from right now, if you were saying, hey, we're bringing everybody back, like, there's no downside to letting Shador be the quarterback next year, because the problem either takes care of itself and you have a quarterback next year that you draft, or you add an offensive lineman, you add a good receiver, and Shador takes bigger strides next year and the team wins eight or nine games.
[00:49:39] Speaker B: Yeah, and then you.
[00:49:40] Speaker A: And then you go, hey, we have a competent quarterback here.
[00:49:43] Speaker B: Yeah.
Yeah. And just real quick here, while we're talking draft a couple things. James wants to know what wide receivers are you all wanting in this draft? You'll have to listen to Thursday's show to get that information.
We don't go deep in a draft talk here on the live show. This is post game wrap up, so you'll have to. You have to come back. I will tell you this, though. You made a. Sorry. Sorry to do this to you, James, but you made a real dumb comment here and you said that they should go Makai Lemon at the top of the draft. And let me just remind everybody that Makai Lemon is what, like, 5, 8, 180 pounds or whatever he is?
Yeah, he's super fast, but these are the same types of guys that the Browns consistently draft over and over and over again, that they never make an impact in the NFL because you know who doesn't make impacts in the NFL other than on super rare occasions, is guys that are 5, 8, 170 pounds, 180 pounds. Like, they don't do much.
[00:50:40] Speaker A: You might be underselling him a little bit. I don't think he's five' eight, but. But he's not.
[00:50:43] Speaker B: I don't think I'm. I'm exaggerating a little. I'm just saying he's small. He's the typical small receiver that the Brown. Like the small, speedy receiver that the Browns tend to go for in the. When they do draft a receiver.
[00:50:55] Speaker A: Anthony Schwartz.
[00:50:56] Speaker B: Yeah. Yeah. Like, we've seen plenty of these guys. Let's not overthink it. There's a couple big bodied homegrown guys at the top of the draft that would work out much better than a Makai Lemon.
Now, if you get Makai Lemon in like the second or third round, sure. But you're not going to. So it's not. There's no reason to go there.
[00:51:19] Speaker A: Can you draft Carnell Tate this year and Jeremiah Smith next year and then you have Quinn, John Juggins in the backfield.
[00:51:25] Speaker B: We're just, I mean, let's be honest. Ohio State wide receivers have won like offensive rookie of the year, like, however many times in the last, like seven years.
[00:51:34] Speaker A: Wide receiver, you.
[00:51:35] Speaker B: Yeah. So, I mean, you're probably. It's probably better than whatever strategy they have, to be honest with you. I said we weren't talking about this. Now why are we getting into it?
[00:51:44] Speaker A: Thanks, James.
[00:51:45] Speaker B: Yeah, thanks.
But. But tune in Thursday. We might have a deeper discussion about it. Maybe not. I don't know. We might save that for late season.
I mean, like after the Browns are done, we still got to fill a couple more weeks before the super bowl, so.
[00:51:59] Speaker A: Yeah.
[00:52:01] Speaker B: But yeah, I don't know. The offense. Offense is really bad. Store Sanders played well. One more point on Shador Sanders because it was pissing me off all week is we talked last week about the. The play against the Bears where he hit Jerry Judy back shoulder. Turned out to be a interception because Jerry Judy can't catch and drop the ball straight to the defender.
I had so many people try and tell me that wasn't a back shoulder throw, that he was just under thrown. And I was like, are you. What are you watching? Like, what are you insane? It was literally. He's running full speed on his route. He threw to the back shoulder at the pile on exactly like you're supposed to, to the point where the defender literally ran past him until Jerry Judy threw the ball forward to him.
[00:52:43] Speaker A: So, yeah, that was a dime. But speaking of that great segue, because I have a final point on Shador too, which is, you know, I keep. That's the one. The one thing that I still keep hearing. And you pointed out he only had two sacks today, but I keep hearing is, well, every. Every time he takes a sack or every time there's a, you know, a play that he's trying to extend, he's got to get rid of the ball there. He's got to get rid of the ball there.
This was the one That a lot of people were up in arms about. This was the fourth down with five minutes left, the fourth and two.
And this was the play he was. If you time this out, he was sacked at 4.02 seconds. And I saw that specifically written on Twitter in multiple places. 4.02 seconds. Got to get rid of the ball faster than that. Agreed. 4 seconds is longer than most NFL throws, which are at about three seconds, so. And eternity longer. But here's the three second mark, right. Shadora is at the back of his drop. Of his drop. And here's your receivers. I mean, starting at the bottom of the screen covered, middle of the screen covered, top of the screen covered. And then you have fanning up here at the top of the screen with Matt Milano closing on him. So where are you throwing that ball? Where are you throwing the ball? Because you have less than a second to decide right now. It's out of your hands. Fan is not even looking at you. He's not even into his break yet. He's in his release. He's not even made his. His break. We're not at this point, I'm not sure if he's going to the flat or if he's going straight towards Matt Milano. So if. Do you know that? Because if you're throwing this ball right now, tell me where are you putting it? You can't just throw the ball into coverage because it's fourth down and you're like, well, I got to get the ball out of my hands. He's still trying to make a play. And if you fast forward the frame to the next. The next frame, one second later, he's on the ground 50s coming around here on the bottom of the screen and is going to have him on the ground in about a second.
So just this idea that like it's so easy to get the ball out of your hands. Like if your receivers can't separate and they can't catch the ball, you can't just throw it to them just for the sake of throwing it.
[00:54:45] Speaker B: Yeah.
Not to mention if he were to throw it and hit one of these guys in the face because they're not looking at him, he's going to get killed for that too. So.
[00:54:54] Speaker A: Right. So I just.
[00:54:56] Speaker B: That.
[00:54:56] Speaker A: I mean. And Shador is never going to be able to live that down because no quarterback is. You watch every NFL game in the, in. In the weekend and there are plays that go on for four and five seconds sometimes. Sometimes you hear commentators all the time go, oh, so and so's got all Day in the pocket. It happens every week in a game, multiple times a game. I mean, it's not. We can't act like every throw in the NFL gets delivered in under three seconds. It's just not a thing that happens. And this was fourth down. He's also looking and saying, hey, these guys got to be beyond the markers. We got to get a first down at. The game's potentially over here.
[00:55:31] Speaker B: Yeah. So take that down so I can see your face moving.
Yeah, I. I agree with you. I mean, it's. It's ridiculous. And that's. That's goes back to my point earlier where these guys all expect so much out of him when it's just impossible. Like, no quarterback is as good as the people that are. That are legitimate, like, Shador haters. I'm not talking about people that critique him. Like we critique him.
[00:55:51] Speaker A: Him.
[00:55:51] Speaker B: Yeah. I don't think people. We get accused of being Shador lovers all the time, but when he makes mistakes, when he does things wrong, we talk about it.
But the people that are legitimate Shador haters, that just can't stand him no matter what.
[00:56:05] Speaker A: Every.
[00:56:05] Speaker B: Every bad. That's the stuff he makes.
[00:56:07] Speaker A: Their post.
[00:56:08] Speaker B: Yeah.
Overanalyzed every single thing he does.
And again, I. Down the stretch today, I was hearing just where I was at, like, I gotta get. Get rid of that. You got to get rid of that. I'm like, the dude literally got to the top of his drop and was just getting swarmed. So, like, I don't know. Exactly. Last drive, you don't even have time to make your reads and make a decision like you. You're just getting destroyed.
[00:56:31] Speaker A: And he's not the only quarterback that gets hit or has sex like that. Josh Allen almost ran himself into a safety running from Miles Garrett today. He took a 14 yard sack on that play. So those things happen, even to good players.
Josh Allen, it happens to everybody.
[00:56:49] Speaker B: It's a part of the game to that point. On Facebook right now. You know how many times this is a comment? You know how many times I've watched Alan Mahomes and a few others do the exact same thing as what you're talking about? We don't hear these things when veterans do it right. No, we don't, because they've proven themselves. You know who's not gotten a chance to prove himself right? Shador Sanders. And again, not that we're already putting him in the same league as these guys. We're not. He's got to prove that, but we're giving him the chance to prove it. Like you guys aren't so, you know.
[00:57:16] Speaker A: You know who's a guy that's getting a lot of credit for extending plays this year?
Caleb Williams. If you go back to next year, I mean, us included, we were like, this guy's not very good to go.
[00:57:27] Speaker B: Back to last year.
[00:57:27] Speaker A: That's what I'm saying. But he's getting credit this year as being a guy that extends plays and it's a positive. Right. Oh, Caleb Williams does a great job extending place. You go back to last year that we were going. We are going. This guy is get rid of the ball. He's running around back there like a chicken with his head cut off. He can't throw the ball to anybody. Is inaccurate.
[00:57:41] Speaker B: He's running all over. But also they put some pieces around him and he's able to actually get it. Get it going.
[00:57:45] Speaker A: Good coaching staff and some talent around you and you go, weird how that works. Looks like a totally different quarterback. Same skill set.
[00:57:51] Speaker B: Incredible.
Let's. Let's move on though. We got to close out the show. We're at an hour somehow.
All right, Bernie. Sportscast Dog of the week nominees. Every week on our show, we nominate a few guys for dog of the Week. We let you guys vote on it. So that'll be up tomorrow so everybody can vote on it. Everybody's listening.
We'll start with Bone, since he's not here. Our third wheel, who is on our main show but does not like to join us on Sundays because he's old and has to go to bed at 4 o'. Clock.
He chose Harold Fannin is who he phoned in. So, uh, Harold Fannin Jr. For him, uh, I'm gonna go. Carson Schwessinger, dude is. Is lights out. Another 14 tackles today.
Like you said, he has a chance at the rookie tackle record. I think he's going to get it because you look at the numbers throughout the year and they've actually gone up the last like three or four weeks. He's. He's sitting at averaging right around 13, 14 tackles the last four weeks.
[00:58:47] Speaker A: So I mean, imagine if he gets 12 or 13 next week. I mean, then you only.
[00:58:50] Speaker B: And all you got to do is get six the last game. Yeah.
So, yeah, I like, I like Carson Schweising in this one.
Or Kenny, who you got?
[00:58:58] Speaker A: I'll go, I'll go. Shador, he was the leading passer and the leading rusher. I mean, he was the entire offense today, so. And I thought he played pretty well other, you know, other than the Two interceptions. I thought it was a pretty good game for him. More improvement.
Completed over 60% of his passes and. And didn't make any glaring, you know, mistakes. The day that you go, we can't. We can't win with this guy. He continues to look competent each week, but he continues to look like a rookie. But that's expected because he is one. He's had five weeks of practice. That's the other thing, too. Everybody's quick to jump on Shador. Oh, this guy sucks. The guy's literally had five weeks of practice. It was funny because he.
I don't know if you heard his presser after the game, to which a couple different things, but one was when he hurt his finger and Dylan had to come in, he was like, basically, I wanted to get back out on the field because I didn't want to put Dylan in that situation because I know how hard it is to go into a game that you haven't prepared for.
[01:00:00] Speaker B: It's kind of. It's kind of like protecting Dylan but also taking a shot at the coaching staff.
[01:00:04] Speaker A: Yeah, I know how hard it is to come into a game when it wasn't game planned for you and when you have.
[01:00:08] Speaker B: Probably wasn't even a shot. It was probably just him being honest.
[01:00:11] Speaker A: But it was just a moment of honesty. But. And then also they asked him specifically about the 4th and 2 and whether he thought that was a. A good call to go for it. And he essentially called out the Cleveland media again and said, like, are you really asking me that question right now? Like, you want me to question my coach on. On the most important critical play of the game? There was five minutes of this, fourth and two. Do we go for it and hope we get it, or do we punt and maybe never see the ball again? Like, in no way that I answer this. Is this going to be helpful to you? All it's going to do is divide people in the locker room and divide players from coaches. That's the only reason you're asking this question. I'm paraphrasing, but that's essentially what his answer was, was. I can't believe that even came out of your mouth.
[01:00:48] Speaker B: He probably did. It should our way. That.
[01:00:50] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, he said it.
[01:00:52] Speaker B: You know, he's a little bit. A little bit more eloquent than you.
[01:00:54] Speaker A: You know, the way that he would answer. But. But that was essentially the gist of it was, what a dumb question. No one should ever answer that question in any reasonable way because there's no good answer to that question. Right.
So, anyway, Shador, Dog of the week 20, 20 and 29 for.
[01:01:13] Speaker B: While you're going through that rant, I thought of one more point to make, too, for everybody that wants to tell me that that him almost getting that safety when he threw the ball away at the end of the game, but not actually getting a safety is the same as Dylan Gabriel taking a safety by throwing a ball away to nobody. It's not. Because you know what the difference is? 2 points.
He got the ball away before he got to the end zone. So that we didn't take two, you know, give up two points there.
Like. Yeah, sure, I understand.
It was a desperation move. I. I'll give that to. To Dylan Gabriel back in. When it happened to him, you know, that was a desperation movie. Just trying to get rid of the ball because he knows the inevitable is happening. You don't do it in the end zone.
[01:01:57] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:01:57] Speaker B: And. And Shador Sanders didn't. Dylan Gabriel did. So let's look at both of those and see, you know, who makes the bigger rookie mistake there. I don't know.
[01:02:05] Speaker A: Well, and the pressure on that play came fast. I mean, he was running for his life. But.
But, yeah, two points. I mean, even at that point, they weren't just out of the game yet. Right. They still had two timeouts. They were able to punt, and if the defense could have made a stop, which they didn't on a couple of runs. Yeah. You might have got the ball back.
[01:02:24] Speaker B: Josh Allen made a crazy underhanded throw.
[01:02:27] Speaker A: Yeah.
[01:02:27] Speaker B: Yeah.
[01:02:27] Speaker A: I mean, you might have.
[01:02:28] Speaker B: He was like. He's like, don't forget. Forget, guys, I'm still Josh Allen.
[01:02:31] Speaker A: So he might have got the ball back with 40 or so seconds and. And had at least a look at trying to get in the field goal range.
[01:02:36] Speaker B: So Josh Allen's just over there living the life. He's like, my hair is real nice.
Just got my wife pregnant.
Just doing it up, you know?
[01:02:45] Speaker A: I guess.
[01:02:46] Speaker B: Yeah.
Anyways, I don't know.
What's your final 130 yards today?
[01:02:51] Speaker A: So he sucks.
[01:02:53] Speaker B: They have 11 wins, though, so.
But yeah, I mean, I would agree.
[01:02:58] Speaker A: Terrible box score.
[01:03:00] Speaker B: Final thoughts here.
I'll go first. My final thought. Two games left.
There's two games left, guys. Miles Garrett. A couple good things will happen. Miles Garrett will break the sack record at some point, and most likely when the season's all over, Kevin Stefanski is going to get fired. So two games left. That's all I got. Two games left. Left.
Kenny, final thoughts.
I know we differ in opinion on Kevin Stefanski and whether he's going anywhere. But.
[01:03:31] Speaker A: Yeah, I mean, I guess all I'll say is, and I've alluded to this during the show, which is the Chicago game was really bad. That team looked like they wanted to be anywhere else today. They came out and had a little bit of fighting them.
Yeah, I don't know that there. That this team can do much over the next two weeks to change the future of this franchise. I think whatever decisions are going to be made at both head coach and GM have kind of already been made.
What I do think is interesting and what is my final point is there's, there's been a lot of leakage lately, a lot of interesting things going on in the media, some interesting posturing.
If you rewind the tape a few weeks ago and Shador got his first maybe win over Las Vegas, Mary Kay Cabot posted a column about why it might make sense to go back to Dylan Gabriel before the end of the year.
Today, after today's game, she posted a column essentially saying, here's why I think you can take Shador Sanders into 26 as your week one starter.
[01:04:42] Speaker B: I can't stand Mary Kay, Kevin. She's the worst.
[01:04:45] Speaker A: I think there's a lot of interesting things happening in the background. I think those decisions are kind of already made.
But I do think that if you read the tea leaves and specifically kind of follow the pulse with, with Mary Kay, I think she's. She's kind of, you know, regurgitating what she's getting from the Browns. You're starting to see a little bit of a direction, and I don't want to place bets on anything right now, but, you know, if I had to put money on it, I'd say Kevin may be gone, Andrew probably stays, and you might have a legitimate opportun opportunity to look at Shador as your starting quarterback, at least for next year. So.
But. But as we've seen with Mary Kay, those things do change week to week. So buckle up.
[01:05:29] Speaker B: Does. Does.
Do you think D knows about all the extra time that the MKC is spending with. With.
With Jimmy?
[01:05:41] Speaker A: I.
Allegedly. I'm not.
[01:05:44] Speaker B: I'm not allegedly, but I'm just. It's. It's crazy. She has all these insights and. I don't know.
I don't know.
[01:05:52] Speaker A: I just thought the about face on the quarterback was funny because the about.
[01:05:55] Speaker B: Face on the quarterback and it doesn't sound like that had probably had anything to do with Kevin Stefanski coming back. I didn't read the column, but.
[01:06:02] Speaker A: Well, she.
She Pushed hard for this week for Kevin Stefanski back, she said, and well, I'm sure we'll cover this on this week's show. That she'd like to see what this offense could do with a competent quarterback.
[01:06:14] Speaker B: I changed it to D. My initial question was going to be, does Michelle know? But, you know, we'll see.
[01:06:18] Speaker A: Yeah. Ds Jimmy's wife, not Kevin's wife.
[01:06:22] Speaker B: But yeah, but if, if Kev, if Kevin's gone, she's gotta still get her news somewhere.
[01:06:29] Speaker A: Not going there.
We are live.
But anyway, I guess just, you know, keep listening to the show.
[01:06:42] Speaker B: Yeah, my final thought, I didn't say anything. I was just saying she's. I don't know who she's getting her news from, you know.
Yeah, I don't know. It drives me nuts. Just. She's not the only one. I mean, we. There's mouthpieces for the Browns everywhere. It's insane. The, the, the local media in Cleveland is just ridiculous as far as you can't get any real information out of them. It's just. It's regurgitated. Brown's news is what it is. Like, like Browns as in like the actual organizations.
[01:07:13] Speaker A: I think you're starting to get some now because I think those people that have been the mouthpieces for the Browns have been burned and they're finally pissed off. That's why all of a sudden you're starting to hear the people on the radio, especially locally, go, I can't defend this anymore. I can't defend this anymore. This is the worst thing I've ever seen. Because there is, it's, it's been indefensible for a long time. And these people have been saying, oh, well, you gotta stick it out with Kevin. You gotta give him a chance. You gotta keep letting these guys do their thing. Andrew Berry had a great draft this year. All these things, I mean, they've been trying really hard, but I think we're at a point now where you've seen back to back three win seasons and you go, guys, this just isn't working and it never is.
And you know, at some point we all reach apathy and we're, we're all there. They've all. But it wasn't, it wasn't based on their own accord. It was based on the fact that they just can't. You can't in good faith keep expounding the virtues of this organization like they're doing something right. Because it's very clear to anyone watching that everything they're doing is Wrong.
[01:08:20] Speaker B: Yeah. So with that final thought, let me remind everybody. Call the Burning Sportscast hot take hotline.
[01:08:26] Speaker A: Yeah, call that. Call it and tell us something.
[01:08:29] Speaker B: Yeah. Give us your hot takes. 3302-2780-8133-0227-8081-3302-2278-0881 call now. We'll put you on the air. Talk about your hot takes. Be sure to check out our gear. Www.thetapmedmedia.com backslash shop.
All kinds of stuff in there, Kenny. That'll do it for us. What can we expect next week? This week?
[01:08:50] Speaker A: This week we'll have our normal show out this week. Are we going to release on Thursday? Thursday is Christmas. Do you want to release on Friday? I don't know that. Are people listening to podcasts on Thursday morning?
On Christmas morning you're doing presents and breakfast with family and your kids. I don't know. It'll be out Thursday or Friday.
[01:09:10] Speaker B: We'll see. It'll be out of day this week.
[01:09:12] Speaker A: It'll be out this week.
We'll decide. We'll post it on social but we'll obviously Preview the Week 17 matchup with the Steelers, have another Browns backers interview and of course all the other things. You listen to the Burning river sportscast for like the same takes over and over and over and over and over again.
[01:09:30] Speaker B: Yeah. Don't forget to check us out on social media. Tapping media is on Facebook, X and Instagram at the tab of media and burning Sportscast is on Facebook. That's this podcast. This one is on Facebook, Instagram, TikTok and YouTube at Burning Sportscast we are on X as well at the handle at Burning Pod Pod. You can find our podcast wherever it gets your podcast. Talk it out podcast, Spotify, YouTube Music, Amazon Music, Stitcher, Pandora high radio podcast, Castro Good pods. We are number one ranked football podcast and so many more. And please, please, please leave us those reviews.
Helps our podcast grow and get seen and that'll do it for us.
As I said before. So I don't know how we talk for an hour and ten minutes every time.
[01:10:08] Speaker A: It's a tough job but somebody's got to do it.
[01:10:10] Speaker B: Somebody's got to do it. Thanks for listening.
[01:10:14] Speaker A: Thanks for listening. Well, I guess we'll see you this week.
[01:10:20] Speaker B: And the Browns are part of the problem.
[01:10:21] Speaker A: Browns are pro brown. They'll be a part of the problem. Be the whole damn problem.
[01:10:24] Speaker B: And only you can prevent river fires.
Burning river sports Good night Cleveland.
